r/antiwork Nov 29 '22 Silver 4 Helpful 1 Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 2 Snek 1 Buff Doge 1

I don't think that word means what you think it means...

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Biden: I'm a proud pro-labor president .

Also Biden: We should force railroad workers to accept a deal they rejected because capitalism.

43.0k Upvotes

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u/TheLemonDome Nov 29 '22

Look at what happened in Ontario with the CUPE strike - does Biden believe the railworkers will simply return to work if he blocks the strike?

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u/Pricycoder-7245 Nov 29 '22

I’ve read from some workers if there demands are not met they’ll wait till there back pay comes in then quit in mass effectively creating a bigger problem but more power to em

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u/Mostest_Importantest Nov 29 '22

All that and more. More power to em.

Critical infrastructure decline and degradation: Blame the workers!

People with money, power, and influence to organize, schedule, and implement infrastructure maintenance and repair: Blame the workers!

People with braincells >double digits: wat?

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u/Active-Ad-1536 Nov 29 '22

Per federal law, that’s exactly what they’ll do or lose their jobs. It’s fucked. My union voted against it and we’ll be working under it regardless.

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u/RocketFucker69 Nov 29 '22

So, they fire everyone because they're on strike, leaving no one to work? Sounds like politics to me! 🤣

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u/DoubleEspressoAddict Nov 29 '22

Reagan famously did that to the air traffic controllers. About 11 out of 13 thousand. They accelerated student programs, used retired guys, and put the military in the towers. Within a year it was being studied in business schools as an effective strike-breaking strategy.

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u/OnionButter Nov 29 '22

He also banned them from ever being rehired IIRC. Went scorched Earth on them.

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u/Low-Director9969 Nov 29 '22

All we want is to be treated like people.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

You’re not human, you’re capital. /s

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u/The_WandererHFY Nov 29 '22

Reminds me of a cynical black-comedy bit I once heard.

"Remember, suicide is illegal because it's unpermitted destruction of government property!"

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Reagan had military air traffic controllers that he could use as a stopgap. No such staffing is available to run the railroads. Not to mention that the manpower needed is exponentially larger than the number of air traffic controllers needed. There does not exist a workforce that could be substituted to keep the rails running if railroaders went on strike.

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u/groundhog-riot Nov 29 '22

My god, that's awful

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u/Living_Bear_2139 Nov 29 '22

So, in order for them to fire all of those requesting better benefits, they’re going to offer those said benefits to everyone except the ones requesting?

America needs solidarity more than ever. You being a scab isn’t going to get you unpaid sick time.

Unions will.

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u/Current-Ordinary-419 Nov 29 '22

Then why not deliberately work as slow as humanely possible to essentially stall the economy anyways.

Fuck them.

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u/S0uth3y Nov 29 '22

What incentive did the rail companies have to bargain fairly, knowing that your administration was going to step in and take away the right to collective bargaining the moment they could engineer a stalemate?

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u/salton Nov 29 '22

I'm expecting some pretty crazy slowdowns if they go through with this. People don't like being treated like slaves.

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u/CertainInteraction4 Nov 29 '22

Follow the Canadian workers' lead. That's all I'm saying.

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u/WhoeverMan Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

Here in Brazil, whenever an essential class is denied the right to strike they often do something that would be roughly translated as "operation by the book", they start applying all rules and regulations extremely thoroughly, so all work grinds to a halt (e.g. imagine if airport security opened and checked every single bag), but they can't be punished because all they are doing is follow the rules.

Edit: I was informed that in English the equivalent term is “work to rule”. For context, in Brazil the term is "operação padrão" (literally "standard operation", as in following standards rigorously).

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u/MrJayFizz Nov 30 '22

Malicious compliance

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u/King0Horse Nov 30 '22

We do the same at my job. Union employee, US.

Inspect the equipment for defects. If a defect is found (none, literally none of the equipment is free of defects, ever) the driver can immediately turn in the equipment for repair, and has the right to take 24 hours off while waiting for repairs.

80 drivers inspect 80 trucks, all have rust, leaks, something. Everyone goes home. Nothing gets loaded or delivered. The mechanics get good OT pay, and management gets the damn point. If they don't get the point, here's this other thing I didn't notice yesterday. Write up, go home. Wednesday morning, there's usually a good understanding in place, and bags of sausage biscuits and hashbrowns as a bonus.

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u/vegemum Nov 30 '22

As a consumer this is inconvenient. As a labor supporter I support this wholeheartedly.

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u/BobbyP27 Nov 30 '22

It’s called “work to rule”, and has been a routine tool in organized labour’s arsenal short of striking for many years.

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u/Tarcye Nov 30 '22

The workers should just strike anyways.

Sends the perfect message.

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u/Agiantgrunt Nov 30 '22 Wholesome

We can’t. They can fine us for every hour of lost revenue and if we form a picket it’s a criminal offense with jail time attached. It’s fucked.

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u/TheWizardOfDeez Nov 30 '22

The whole point is to keep the railroads running to keep freight moving, if they arrest all of the rail workers, they will have no employees again and no one would ever work for them. Still striking will absolutely work anyways the federal government has basically said so itself, it will do absolutely anything to keep the railroads running.

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u/FrontierLuminary Nov 30 '22

Anything but support labor. Bastards.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '22

In my state it's a criminal offense for a public service employee to strike. Like they can be charged criminally and go to jail then lose all licensing, completely ruining their career if they try to strike.

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u/halarioushandle Nov 30 '22

Don't strike, quit. Everyone just walk off the job. You can't force people to work!

They will need to re-hire of course and at that point you negotiate the new terms.

Drastic times call for drastic measures.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

They've known they had the govt in their pocket the entire time. Has been like this since 1970.

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u/ConsciousFractals Nov 29 '22

I’d argue that the US became a corporatocracy back in the 1800s with the advent of national railroad companies

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u/robbierobfantastic Nov 29 '22

The Virginia Company has entered the chat

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u/MOOShoooooo Nov 29 '22

Well speak up then, what about ya?

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u/YoBro98765 Nov 29 '22

I edited a pre-defined letter to Congres urging them to avert a shutdown to say that they should require paid sick leave for all essential workers.

Congress can and should mandate paid sick leave AND avert a rail shutdown. They can do both.

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u/shady101852 Nov 29 '22

Now if everyone can get paid sick leaves(not just rail road workers) that would be great.

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u/RyanWilliamsElection Nov 30 '22

I think they are asking for unpaid sick leave and still can’t get that.

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u/No-Comfortable9480 Nov 30 '22

They can’t take work off if they’re sick? Or what, they get fired?

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u/freehatt2018 Nov 30 '22

They are asking for unpaid sick leave and to end forced over time

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u/bustedbuddha Nov 29 '22

Imagine instead making it federal law that they had to provide days off when reasonably requested as the Union is holding out for.

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u/katherinesilens Nov 30 '22

I would even say the union isn't asking for enough. They are holding out for unpaid sick days off. It's completely absurd how they are being treated for an ask that is below the benefits of the average American worker. It's utterly incomprehensible how the government could side with the rail companies given how much of a safety issue a system is where operators of trains are punished for being sick.

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u/wha-haa Nov 30 '22

“Below the benefits of the average American worker.”

The average worker doesn’t get paid sick time. They are asking simply to not be punished/ reprimanded for being sick.

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u/grampalearns Nov 29 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Starry

Here's a novel idea. How about enacting legislation to force THE COMPANY to acquiesce to the unions demands?

You know, just to be different.

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u/DaisyBeeBloomin Nov 29 '22

Yes, this is the question everyone should be asking.

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u/a-horse-has-no-name Nov 29 '22

Warren Buffet has more power and influence than the President of the United States of America with 30 years of influence in the Senate.

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u/north_canadian_ice SocDem Nov 29 '22

Warren Buffet has more power and influence than the President of the United States of America with 30 years of influence in the Senate.

That's true & because Biden willingly takes donations from oligarchs like Buffet.

So Biden has to kiss Buffet's butt & take his side while not appearing too anti-labor in the process.

Kinda like the principle who tells a bully to let up on the bullied kid but ultimately punishes the bullied kid for making a scene.

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u/LakeVermilionDreams Nov 29 '22

*Principal, who in this case has no principles.

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u/_Foy Nov 29 '22

As a proud pro-labor President, I'm siding 100% with the company every time. Suck it, workers.

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u/strange_of_heart Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Because there will be no consequences or backlash from donors, the media, corporations etc. for him helping union bust, but if he actually told a company what to do all those aforementioned groups would go into an insane frenzy about "cOmMunIsM!!1"

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u/RunKind4141 Nov 29 '22

I'd love to see the union actually refuse to follow government orders. Are they going to force people to work, by literal violence?

If they can't strike, then nationalize.

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u/100WattTubeTop Nov 29 '22

Education workers did this last month in Canada and went on strike even though they were mandated back to work. The government caved within a day.

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u/dksdragon43 Nov 29 '22

Yeah I was going to say this. The workers were asking for an 11% raise, the school board refused to go above 2% (locked in for four years). The government stepped in to force them to go back on threat of $4000 per day of missed work. Literally no one went back and the union said if they got charged, charge it to the union. And yeah, Ford (Premier of Ontario) caved in a day, allowing them to go back to negotiations. Striking works, standing together works.

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u/Plokzee Nov 29 '22

Rumor is there were MANY unions that saw the threat to their collective bargaining, and were getting ready to strike alongside them in solidarity... We all know who Doug answers to (big industry) and me thinks he got a pretty heated talking to, telling him it was going to fuck with their money now and he'd better wise the fuck up or he'd have some serious consequences...

Solidarity in numbers, that's the key. They can dissolve a union but not an entire industry

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '22

It wasn't a rumour. Many unions publically stated they would join. There was even out of province unions pledging money to cover fines if the government went that route.

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u/Background_Winter_65 Nov 29 '22

How can they charge someone for missing work?

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u/Durtonious Nov 29 '22

Well that's the funny thing, they can't, and the Union called their bluff.

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u/Background_Winter_65 Nov 29 '22

So what is Biden doing- I know..I know...this is the US, but still, what the hell is he doing then?

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u/Durtonious Nov 29 '22

Testing the union's resolve. Either they "obey" or they strike and put themselves in a potentially better bargaining position.

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u/Wunderlandtripzz Nov 30 '22

I think this panic by the government shows how much leverage these workers have. I wouldnt give an inch

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u/master-shake69 Nov 29 '22

It takes everyone though and that's the hard part.

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u/FartPoopFartAgain Nov 29 '22

They have forced people to work by literal violence in the past. If this goes through, everyone needs to strike on behalf of the rail workers.

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u/GoodvEvil69 Nov 29 '22 Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Starry Endless Coolness

The only way we will ever change anything in the USA is If all working class people say fuck you and stay home until they agree to start treating us the way we deserve. If we stop their flow of money they will notice us, until then we are at their whim.

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u/BrewerBeer Nov 29 '22 Helpful All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Wearing is Caring

The only way we will ever change anything in the USA is If all working class people say fuck you and stay home until they agree to start treating us the way we deserve. If we stop their flow of money they will notice us, until then we are at their whim.

I wish.

https://www.findlaw.com/employment/wages-and-benefits/taft-hartley-act-overview.html

In the midterm elections of 1946, the Republicans gained control of the Senate and the House of Representatives for the first time since 1931. At that time, there was a growing fear of Communist infiltration of labor unions. That, coupled with the growth in membership and power of unions and several large-scale strikes, led to an increasingly anti-union climate. In 1947, Congress enacted the Labor Management Relations Act, otherwise known as the Taft-Hartley Act, over a veto from President Harry S. Truman. The Taft-Hartley Act repealed significant provisions of the Wagner Act.

The Wagner Act is also known as the National Labor Relations Act, ie the labor bill of rights.

The Taft-Hartley Act also placed significant limitations on the union rights to strike and boycott. For example, it required unions to give 60 days' advance notice of a strike. The Act also prohibited certain types of strikes and boycotts, including:

  • Secondary boycotts: The boycott of an employer with which the union doesn't have a dispute, with the goal of inducing that employer not to work with another business with which the union does have a dispute

  • Sympathy strikes or boycotts: Whereby the workers not involved in a labor dispute strike or boycott in support of other striking or boycotting employees or unions

  • Jurisdictional strikes and boycotts: These are initiated against an employer as a result of a dispute with another union as to the right to perform certain work.

The Taft-Hartley Act has effectively killed general strikes in the US by causing union leadership to have to walk on eggshells to not be personally liable.

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u/tofuroll Nov 29 '22

That's very interesting. However, realistically, are they going to enforce slave labour? Are they going to send everyone to prison? Or hold them at their workstations with threat of violence?

There is only so much a government can do before it becomes too obviously slavery.

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u/bond-title-bond Nov 29 '22

What if we do it illegally?

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u/SaquonBarkleyBigBlue Nov 29 '22

The secret ingredient is crime

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u/United-Tension-5578 Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

It’s only a crime because the criminals in charge deemed it so.

Edit: YOU PEOPLE HAVE FORGOTTEN THE GOVERNMENT WORKS FOR YOU. YOU HAVE LET THESE SCUMBAGS FORGET THEY ARE SERVANTS. WE ARE NOT THEIR SLAVE LABOR.

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u/Dirty_Lurch Nov 30 '22

How in the hell do more people not understand this!!! Don't adhere to unjust laws.

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u/Khanstant Nov 30 '22 Take My Energy

Civil disobedience is the primary way to get what people need. When the law is shit, you should break it until they fix the law. The law shouldn't punish you for it being shitty. We consent to be governed so it can protect us from business interests and others who would harm us. If the governor cannot do that then we should not allow that government anymore.

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u/Sargpeppers Nov 29 '22

Best way to start is a go slow, ops train took twice as long to load, sorry nothing we could do.

Ops train is running 5 days late because of some mysterious fault we can't work out, sorry nothing we can do.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '22

In the building trades where I live we used to call that wobble… Do your job… Just slow

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u/Rough-Jackfruit2306 Nov 30 '22

I wonder if that’s related to the Wobblies? The IWW

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u/Ok_Marionberry_9932 Nov 30 '22

Fortunately, the railroads are heavily regulated, coming up with legitimate excuses to slowdown should be elementary

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u/Nervous-Daikon-5393 Nov 29 '22

In fact that's exactly what happened with the sanitation workers in Memphis, that MLK got assassinated for trying to help.

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u/nofrenomine Nov 29 '22

Yeah but let's see how that looks in 2022.

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u/JaMarr_is_daddy Nov 29 '22

It would be police arresting the strikers with any violence chalked up to them "resisting arrest". Few people will question why they were arrested in the first place and simply say "they were breaking the law".

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u/Informal_Tone1537 Nov 30 '22

People forget what the police have done throughout our history to striking union members

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u/Lolwaitwuttt Nov 29 '22

If they can’t strike, there should be a general strike.

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u/AllAboutMeMedia Nov 29 '22

Remember: Essential workers are critical to our economy

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u/Azirma Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

If the union refuses the government order the union can be sued by the company and basically bankrupt the union to the ground. Also, the US government has been known to use violence when they don’t get it there way with unions, so it wouldn’t be surprising if they do it again.

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u/bobwmcgrath Nov 29 '22

What if the union does not strike, but they workers don't show anyway?

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u/Azirma Nov 29 '22

As long as the union/union representative doesn’t make any suggestions to indicated not showing up on that day or any other day than they can’t be held liable for what people do even if all the union workers don’t show up(the representative still has to go to work or it can be used against the union)

Also not legal advice.

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u/FantomUnicorn Nov 29 '22

"Guys, on Nov 30th we will NOT strike! I will go to work and there will be NO strike whatsoever! Am I making myself clear, do you understand what I'm saying? We will DEFINITELY NOT strike on Nov 30th from 7am to 7pm. ABSOLUTELY NOT."

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u/Oxycontinsanity Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22 Silver Gold Platinum Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Starry Take My Power

This, ladies and gentleman, is what happens when all we (railroaders) ask for is UNPAID sick leave. It doesn’t absolutely have to be paid as most of the public thinks that’s what we’re asking for.

We want UNPAID sick leave, and they (the railroad companies) refuse.

Edit: this has gotten to be a lot to try to handle. We appreciate the support of you guys. I saw someone ask what the best way to support us would be? Honestly I’m not even sure at this point. We’ve been reaching out to members of government since February asking for help.

It’s very hard to explain the intricacies of what we’re dealing with to someone who doesn’t actively work here or knows someone who does. I’ve tried my best to put it in a way that’s easy to understand without using any railroad jargon, making it comparable to what most would consider a “normal schedule”.

The company has done a very good job at painting a picture where we, the workers, are greedy crybabies who want everything in the world in exchange for nothing. This is very much not the case as we are simply asking for the ability to have comparable time off to the rest of the country.

We shouldn’t be working 65h/week while on call and facing termination if we need a day or two to regain basic human rest or to get over an illness, since we can’t rely on a set 2 days off to accomplish that.

To those who have messaged me words of support, thank you so much.

To those who have messaged me the opposite, sit and spin on a cactus.

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u/Boobsiclese Nov 29 '22

Uh.... what??

You're asking for UNPAID sick leave and they're saying no??!

Fuck every selfish greedy POS on this planet.

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u/Oxycontinsanity Nov 29 '22 Helpful

We have no sick leave on the BNSF. Every time we ‘call in sick’ we lose what are called “points” (part of a new attendance policy they enacted in February of this year)

You start out at 30 points, and a single layoff can cost as much as 10 if that day happens to be what they call a High Impact Day. They aren’t always holidays either, for example Super Bowl Sunday is worth the same amount of points as Christmas.

You gain points back by working continuously without taking time off. 14 days in a row will earn you 4 points. So if you were to take Christmas Eve and Christmas Day off (10 points each), it would take you 2-3 months of 0 days off to regain those points again.

Edit: minor details that I forgot

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u/Boobsiclese Nov 29 '22

Wtf kind of crazy ass shit is this???

I have no words.

I'm just really sorry you're having to deal with this bullshit. 😔 I'm sorry.

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u/Fragrant_Example_918 Nov 29 '22

That's called forced labor, that's what capitalists have been pushing for for decades...

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u/tostedsomethingawful Black Pilled Bernie Bro Nov 29 '22

Forced labor is what will happen when Biden does what Reagan did during the air traffic controller strike, have the military run it and fire all the people who dared to ask for slightly better conditions

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u/Fragrant_Example_918 Nov 29 '22

Tbh I think that railroad employees should be government employees and have the same benefits.

There's no valid reason for a critical infrastructure such as railroads to not be entirely owned, maintained, and operated by the government (I could see them being operated by private companies that rent operating rights from the gov, but even then I don't think it's a good option).

All critical infrastructure should be government owned (and in some cases operated as well).

That includes :

  • healthcare
  • railroads and transportation infrastructure
  • communication infrastructure (I'm fine with those being rented from the gov and operated by private companies tbh)
  • utilities like water and electricity

Honestly, just do it like every other developed nation does it, which is having the list above as government owned/operated.

Then once those people have the salaries and benefit they deserve, there's no need to replace them with the army.

And for those who might say (who knows, there are always libertarians everywhere, I have seen some here too...) that the government doesn't operate things as well as private companies, I'll answer this :

  • Why do you think the US is paying the most for all the services mentioned above, while also getting the shittiest service, of all developed nations, while all other nations are either HEAVILY regulating those or outright having the gov owning/operating them.

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u/Spazza42 Nov 29 '22

This is what the UK did until they decided to private the entire railway system. Guess which worked better? You got it. The one the Government ran.

Every train is either late, early or cancelled. No apologies given and it takes weeks to get a refund, in the event it’s cancelled you simply have to find another way to where you’re going and if it’s a time sensitive event like a work meeting or an interview - you’re shit out of luck.

It’s why most people choose to drive, we’re more reliable as individuals than as a privatised industry.

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u/Nurodma Nov 29 '22

The trains being fucked up is not an accident, it is by design.

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u/JessTheKitsune Anarcho-Syndicalist Nov 30 '22

They recently privatized our government railroad company in Finland, called VR, and it is a fucking disgrace, shameful. I can't believe Neoliberals have struck again even here. Not to mention the budget cuts to healthcare in 2018. It's been a fun pandemic.

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u/Thatoneguy5555555 Nov 29 '22

I really struggle seeing the downfall in such a plan, other than "bUt MuH CaPtaLiSm"

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u/ozarkslam21 Nov 29 '22

This plan would cost several dozen people at least a yacht or two.

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u/Garbage_Wizard246 Nov 29 '22

Good luck getting 750000 military members to do what the railroad union is doing

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u/Darrenizer Nov 29 '22

Late stage capitalism bro.

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u/JTurnAndBurn Nov 29 '22

The average person has no idea how hard these guys are worked and think they are just greedy ... No they just want a life and not have a "day off" in a hotel room 500 miles from home

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u/Boobsiclese Nov 29 '22

I never would have thought they were greedy. I know where the real greed lies in this country when it comes to corporations.

I just can't believe it's unpaid leave they're fighting for.... I'm like.... wot?! 😲 Fuck that noise. These guys should go on strike until they get PTO. Fuck every single person who fights against basic human decency for workers.

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u/Chiefy_Poof Nov 29 '22

It’s all the greedy poors taking everything. Yep that’s it the poor people are the ones who are sucking the system dry. eyerolling intensifies

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u/JTurnAndBurn Nov 29 '22

90% of their time every week not even paid hours is spent away from home ... It sucks , I tried for years to get in till this bullshit started and I found better. A doctors appointment or getting sick means you're 1 foot out the door . hell someone got fired from bnsf for getting into a car crash on the way to work and it wasnt their fault .

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u/Boobsiclese Nov 29 '22

I just.... like.... who the fuck do they think they are?? They don't even pay that well!! This should be a much cushier job in terms of benefits... who owns this bullshit?? They need an effing smack upside the head.

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u/JTurnAndBurn Nov 29 '22

The railroad ceos are greedy and dont give a fuck because of the railroad labor act they can do whatever they want because the strike has to be approved

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u/Boobsiclese Nov 29 '22

....... that's not how strikes are supposed to work......🤔

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u/Ursula2071 Nov 29 '22

FUCK WARREN BUFFET. GREEDY PIECE OF SHIT!

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u/Visible_Ad_9625 Nov 29 '22

My hospital enacted something similar and it just resulted in a shit ton of people being laid off and they’ve still never recovered from it. I’m pretty sure most companies just need to appreciate the employees they do have, because everyone is short staffed!

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u/Food_Economist Nov 29 '22

This is just abhorrent 😔 what happens if you get to 0 points? Do they fire you?

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u/Oxycontinsanity Nov 29 '22

Yup. Reaching 0 points leads to termination. Not necessarily after the 1st offense depending on your work history, but if life happens enough, you’re fired.

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u/Weird-Vagina-Beard Nov 29 '22

What other options are available in your area that could support your life? I'm guessing few to none?

I've worked 7x12hrs a week in construction and that was rough for just a few months of no time off. I couldn't imagine working your situation for years especially.

I hope you get what you need or find something better.

Construction will take anyone and you can move up quickly if you learn. I came from an IT background and they still took me lol.

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u/Broad_Success_4703 Nov 29 '22

So instead of saying you get 5 sick days a year use them as you please they create this chaos for accounting to also keep track of

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u/brooklynlad Nov 29 '22

Warren Buffett is not the savior/saint most people think he is.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Of course he isn't. He's a fucking billionaire. No billionaire has ever become a billionaire by doing anything other than exploiting people as often as possible.

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u/ComatoseSquirrel Nov 29 '22

People still refuse to understand this. Good people don't become billionaires. That they can put on a good face for the public does not make them good people.

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u/Kir-01 Nov 29 '22

Please, don't accept anything and let the country's economy burn to the ground. Fuck them. You deserve better.

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u/override367 Nov 29 '22

We're one step shy of large scale sabotage being the morally correct option

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u/SadCheesemonger Nov 29 '22

I said this to my wife last night. Like sure, piss of the people who make the trains run. " Sorry boss, we can't move today. Every single engine in the yard is on the fritz and some mice chewed through the brake lines of every car so nothing can go. What's that? It's happened at every yard in the country? Damn, those mice work fast!"

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u/mathnstats Nov 29 '22

They aren't accepting the deal. That's why congress is going to force them to take it and make it illegal for them to strike.

And I fucking hope they strike anyways. I'd gladly go to jail for joining that picket line

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u/Anna_Lilies Nov 29 '22

What if you just stay home or quit?

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u/saintofhate Nov 29 '22

Believe it or not straight to jail. /s

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u/jimbo_sliced Nov 29 '22

You’re sick? Jail, right away.

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u/agtmadcat Nov 29 '22

It's only illegal if the strike is unsuccessful.

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u/DirtyPenPalDoug Nov 29 '22

Time to Wildcat strike for paid sick leave and a 3 dollar bump up across board. They wanna fuck? Fuck back

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u/IceManYurt Nov 29 '22

NoBoDy WaNtS tO wOrK!

Burn it the fuck down.

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u/DanSanderman Nov 29 '22

Who the fuck wants to work?

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u/Charming_External_92 Nov 29 '22

It's infuriating to hear a president deny the most very basic rights to these workers.
He should be outraged they are not getting paid when sick!!! Our politicians are rotten

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u/mathnstats Nov 29 '22

He should be outraged they are not getting paid when sick!!!

Shit, he's got a few steps before that; they don't even get unpaid sick leave. Fuck, they get actively punished for being sick.

And Biden is totally fine with that, it seems.

Pro-labor my ass.

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u/DustBunnicula Nov 29 '22

Biden is such a hypocrite. This was his moment to stand up and do the right thing. Instead, he’s very knowingly doing the weak and cowardly thing. He can get fucked.

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u/reeee_____ Nov 29 '22

I'd put every president of the last 20+ years in Guantanamo for failing the American people so fucking badly.

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u/Fstmiddy Nov 29 '22

Fuck the supply chain. Go on strike. It's about time.

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u/ConfusedAndLiving Nov 29 '22

You: we want unpaid sick leave

them: make some sort of counter offer

Biden: force you to take the counter offer

What were they offering? I can't really see a middle ground between no unpaid leave and yes unpaid leave.

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u/Mayor_Death Nov 29 '22

Reading another comment, I think it’s a “You want unpaid time off? Alright, but do it too many times (three days at the start) you’re gone. Oh, and you need to work a month and a half in a row if you took one day off. Cya”

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/z81m5k/i_dont_think_that_word_means_what_you_think_it/iy9bno3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

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u/mathnstats Nov 29 '22

The deal Biden is trying to force gives engineers and conductors 3 total unpaid days off a year for medical stuff, which has to be scheduled 30 days in advance. And they can no longer be punished for being hospitalized.

That's about it. And they're trying to act like they're being generous.

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u/the-truthseeker Nov 30 '22

Because everybody knows that you can schedule your unexpected illness 30 days in advance.

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u/VirginiaMcCaskey Nov 29 '22

It's a bit more nuanced. They negotiated a deal back in September (24% pay raise over five years, back pay going to 2020 iirc, caps on healthcare, and one additional personal day) and took it to the 12 unions to vote to ratify. 8 of them did. 4 of them didn't. So there hasn't been a counter offer yet, and a big chunk of people voted to accept the original.

What they're saying now is that if Congress invokes the Railway Labor Act, they will go on strike on December 9th anyway.

The thing to keep in mind is that the impacts of a prolonged strike in the rails is like, societally bad. Think shortages of food, clean water, and medication. I think Biden is making a mistake by not working the other angle (forcing the railroad companies to comply with the railroad workers demands), because this is the fault of the railroad companies. They laid off tens of thousands of people and couldn't staff their networks during covid. Now they're trying to limit basic benefits because they don't have enough people. Sounds like they need a fresh slap in the face from the free market.

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u/ConfusedAndLiving Nov 29 '22

Yeah, if the rails have societal importance, then the companies should have a mandate to ensure service no matter what.

I agree. Force them to meet the workers demands

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u/Elevated__ Nov 29 '22

make some sort of counter offer

A 15-minute rest area where the sick can drug themselves every morning.

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u/Highplowp Nov 29 '22

Let them strike, we need a fucking revolution before anyone gives a shit about the working class.

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u/--harumph-- Nov 29 '22

Strike, Congress declares, "contempt of Congress" there are no repercussions.

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u/Rude_Commercial_7470 Nov 29 '22

No shit they cant even hold the politicians accountable that were behind jan6th, what the fuck they gonna do when an entire industry says fuck off? Drone strike em all ha!

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u/CheezusRiced06 Nov 29 '22

I mean Biden had more billionaire mega-corp donors than Trump for the 2020 election, it's a bit absurd that people are SURPRISED that Biden is turning out to be a status-quo corpocrat?

As if the puppet masters of our world would throw their ill gotten gains at a guy who would stop the music?

No, no, we dance, fellow monkeys, we dance.

It's fucking disgusting the bedroom relationship between government and corpocunts America has allowed to fester under the skin of the working class that built it all

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u/Character_Switch5085 Nov 29 '22

Biden showing his true colors....we don't have real representation in this country anymore. The owners won't allow it.

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u/RedAndBlackMartyr Nov 29 '22

Biden showing his true colors

Obvious to anyone paying attention decades ago.

we don't have real representation in this country anymore.

Workers have not had representation for well over 50 years.

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u/PamCokeyMonster Nov 29 '22

They have fkin short memory, forcing u to work while sick.

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u/Reasonable-Catch4431 Nov 29 '22

“Hey Jack, I know I said I was on your side but because some rich ruling class folk told me they might lose a fraction of their power and wealth, Im going to side with them.”

Another step towards working class slavery is what this is.

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u/chet_brosley Nov 30 '22

I'm pro labor union as long as it doesn't affect me in the slightest is what he meant.

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u/Reasonable-Catch4431 Nov 30 '22

Lets remember this in the primaries

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u/3cameo Nov 29 '22

if the railway shutdown would hurt millions then the strike is doing exactly what its supposed to? it puts more pressure on the execs to negotiate a better deal with the workers. if the only time we are allowed to strike and protest is when it wont affect anybody then we dont have the right to protest and strike

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u/Own_Independence5882 Nov 29 '22

This is why there should be unions made up of smaller unions. Shit like what they did to the Air traffic controllers unions shouldve resulted in thousands of unions striking simultaneously until members of congress start stepping down, reversing course, and floating impeachment. It shouldve been the end of Raegan right then and there. Labour rights are not favors, they were won by the blood of our forefathers.

Imagine if any action taken against Starbucks unionizers would result in all coffee shop workers going on strike. The middle class would be alive and well.

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u/Tayslinger Nov 30 '22

I like this. Unions need Defense Pacts. Oh snap, the teacher’s union has been on strike for 30 plus days? Looks like that triggers the garbage collectors and the coffee shop unions. Good luck!

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u/Jolly-Independence64 Nov 30 '22

Also a good checks and balance. The police union is getting killers off free? No more help from other unions.

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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 Nov 29 '22

I hope they strike regardless. This is bullshit.

If they can ignore railroad workers getting shafted, they can (and will) ignore anyone.

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u/TheOverBored Nov 29 '22

Exactly, what's to stop them trying to say tech employees unionizing would "impact critical infrastructure" with internet services?

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u/imgrandojjo Nov 29 '22

More to the point, what's the stop the government breaking a teacher's union. There's something similar happening in Canada I believe.

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u/bedandsofa Nov 29 '22

Teachers refusing to work despite threats or retaliation from the government. Other unions joining the teachers in the strike.

The power of working people lies in the fact that our labor is the necessary ingredient for society to function. Society functions by our permission and if we are organized, we can withhold that permission until we get what we want.

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u/daschande Nov 29 '22

Remember during covid when basically every company declared themselves am "essential business" and the government just kinda shrugged and said OK?

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u/beardedbear83 Nov 29 '22

The rail industry contributes to the campaigns of nearly 300 members of the US House of Reps and 71 members of the US Senate. That's this calendar year alone. Now why in the world should rail workers listen to the government at all?

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u/LiteBrite25 Nov 29 '22

It's reasonable to compel the lower class to accept a raw deal, but high treason to expect an aristocrat who has intricately involved themselves in the American economy to actually take the fall when their decisions fuck over the American economy.

Fucking Biden.

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u/Meta_Digital Eco-Anarchist Nov 29 '22

Biden has never, in his long political history, overlapped with what anyone could reasonably consider "pro-labor".

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u/-Daetrax- Nov 29 '22

They love to say it's capitalism when they keep wages low. Supply and demand. Flip it back on them and they're running to the government to force people to work. Love the hypocrisy.

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u/Halasham Marxist Nov 29 '22

As a proud pro-labor President,

Citation Needed.

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u/spiked_macaroon Nov 29 '22

So as a proud pro-labor president you're siding with...(checks notes) management. Crystal clear.

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u/Cairse Nov 29 '22

If it's so important then you should probably let the people who do it at least go to the fucking doctor.

Rail workers have to stay vigilant.

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u/mathnstats Nov 29 '22

With the new deal they'll be forcing, they'll be able to go to the doctor!!

3 times a year.

Unpaid.

And only if scheduled a month ahead of time.

But hey, look at the bright side! They won't be able to be punished anymore if they're hospitalized (other than by the healthcare industry, of course)!!

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u/One_Distribution1743 Railroader Nov 29 '22

And don't forget those doctor visits must be on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, but not on a holiday.

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u/mb1zzle Nov 29 '22

Just go on strike regardless. Education union just did it in ontario a couple weeks ago. Provincial government declared it illegal and imposed $4000/day fines on each striking member. The union said go to hell and went on strike anyway. The government caved in days.

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u/urinatingangels Nov 29 '22

Reagan vibes from Biden

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u/vegemouse Nov 29 '22

I mean every president since Reagan has pretty much been a clone of Reagan that moves steadily to the right.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Because it's not a pendulum. It's a ratchet. The GOP gets in and turns it to the right. The Dems get in and they're the pawl inside the ratchet that prevents it from turning to the left. They "hold" the right ward movement so it doesn't slip left ward, establishing the latest right ward movement as the new status quo.

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u/TheBirdBytheWindow Nov 29 '22

This is so wrong.

Walk. Do not let rich fucking white men decide when you can and can't see your families. You're not asking for much.

Bring this country's fat cats to their fucking knees. The American workers need a change.

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u/mtgsyko82 Nov 29 '22

I agree forcing them to accept a contract in the sake of saving money is fucked. If they don't care enough to fight for you to have better wages and conditions then you shouldn't care to listen to them when they say you have to. Fuck businesses let em feel it that's the only way things will change.

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u/TheBirdBytheWindow Nov 29 '22

Businesses and rich corporations do not care if they work these people to death. They don't care if they never see their kids. But we do.

We have to do something to teach the rich rulers a lesson. If we don't we'll all be slaves soon.

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u/mtgsyko82 Nov 29 '22

I agree only way to hurt these capitalists is to go after their money. It's the only thing they truly care about and if we hurt em where they'll feel it then they are likely to change things in our favor to save what money they can.

That's why labor unions won battles cuz they held these pigs over a barrel and the losses hurt them enough to come to the table.

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u/ExternalOk4293 Nov 29 '22

What a clown. I vote democratic and am a union member. I know a struck will affect me personally but that is BS.

Congress should act to make Berkshire give these people better working conditions. Railroads use to be good jobs. But thanks to “capitalism” it’s all about shareholder returns.

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u/LewisEFurr Nov 29 '22 Silver

This is so fucking Democrat it's painful. You barely eked out the necessary wins (and in some cases didn't) in the midterms when you were up against probably the worst oppositional candidates in US history, but instead of doubling-down and getting to work on continued forward progress, you sit back and make bonehead moves like this that undo any gains.

FORCE THE COMPANY, NOT THE EMPLOYEE

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u/basementhookers Nov 29 '22

He doesn’t need to force anyone. Just allow the collective bargaining to take its course without coercion. The rail workers aren’t asking for special treatment, because they don’t need any.

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u/LewisEFurr Nov 29 '22

even better, stay laissez-faire about the whole thing.

Unless, of course, they want to acknowledge that the rail system is so integral to daily life that it should be nationalized, but I won't hold my breath.

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u/My_Penbroke Nov 29 '22

What’s Congress going to do… force people to work against their will? I’m pretty sure that was outlawed by the 13th amendment.

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u/TheFutbolShop Nov 29 '22

Well.. a certain type of slavery is allowed still. Aside from all the other forms of servitude that are slavery in all but name.

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u/FartPoopFartAgain Nov 29 '22

In their eyes it isn't slavery if they are allowed to quit. They can just make striking illegal in this instance.

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u/TheFutbolShop Nov 29 '22

They essentially already have. General strikes are illegal in the US as well, and solidarity strikes too. For that matter wildcat strikes are illegal also. Government workers cannot strike, nor can “essential” workers in the interest of national security meaning whoever they wish to call essential can be forbidden from striking at any time without recourse.

Labor has very little power, and while people are slowly starting to realize theyve had almost everything taken away we are a ways from people openly revolting against a society that prizes individual greed as the only “righteous” motivator.

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u/Charming_External_92 Nov 29 '22

They are probably working to bring that back

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u/JerrodDRagon Nov 29 '22

Just admit your not pro union then

Billionaires can take a hit on some cash but no no no better to force the people who your serve to work instead of getting them sick days

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u/Antideck Nov 29 '22

Which elitist lap dog will we elect next?

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u/Alphedhel Nov 29 '22

I say we let the supply chain fail so we can better understand what we need to be producing locally… Our supply issues are born of the hubris that we’ll always have logistics good enough to cart things all over. However, we’re facing more natural disasters all the time and this is an opportunity for us to figure out what our communities lack. Let them strike, I hope they get their demands and we better our communities with important jobs producing small batches to the area.

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u/DogGroundbreaking568 Nov 29 '22

That’s the same thing every CEO of a company facing a strike says.

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u/arcxiii SocDem Nov 29 '22

This is atrocious.

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u/tex_4x4 Nov 29 '22

There’s maybe 5 or 6 federal politicians total on both political “sides” that aren’t corrupt pieces of shit who serve special interests.

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u/shaggy_macdoogle Nov 29 '22

You're giving way more credit than me. Maybe 2 or 3 want to help the general pop, but most if not all are there to get rich. That's it. All they have to do is sit there and blame the other side for whatever the issue is, not do anything to actually solve the problem, then sit back and collect money from whoever wants to give it to them. America is circling the drain.

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u/seanisdown Nov 29 '22

Legislate mediation. Dont force a rejected contract on workers. Biden turning into Reagan.

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u/LudovicoSpecs Nov 29 '22

I'm genuinely disappointed that Biden is on the wrong side of this. Supposed to love trains. Identify with the workers.

This feels like a bait and switch.

SOLIDARITY. Support the workers. Let them strike.

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u/Guyote_ Nov 29 '22

This feels like a bait and switch.

Yes, this is Joe Biden.

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u/f_elon Nov 29 '22

You ever ever feel insta hate from reading something like it's unpaid and y'all still on this bull wow please quit this job warren buffet and Biden trying to race to be more hated them trump y'all suck so bad that y'all make people hate they grand parents cause y'all in the same demographic

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u/sammyno55 Nov 29 '22

It's funny, the English language. Like when I say, "with all due respect, sir" I mean no respect at all.

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