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u/mealteamsixty Nov 30 '22
Let's just go crazy and guarantee 14 days of paid sick leave for all working adults in the US. You know, since we're all people, who get sick now and then?
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u/Ok-Macaroon-7819 Nov 30 '22
That would be crazy... I mean, you've seen how they treat our veterans, right? To treat a citizen like a human being? Pure insanity.
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u/sentimental_goat Nov 30 '22
Show me the money!!
I'm a layman, but I think population dynamics is going to benefit the workers. Let's get behind the right people. Sanders has spent his entire life fighting for the common man. Kind of sad that the DNC robbed us of a fair chance to elect an actual decent politician. Corrupt lobbying has done tragic damage to this democracy.
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u/Bkoss91 Nov 30 '22
I often wonder why they hate us so much, tbh.
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u/notcrackerjack Nov 30 '22 •
Because our purpose is to work, in their eyes. If we don’t work, well, we’re broken machinery
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u/icelordz Nov 30 '22
broken machinery gets repaired, they're just going to work you to death
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u/AthenasApostle Nov 30 '22
After years in the work force, I can say with certainty that broken machinery gets worked until it stops functioning, is fixed in the cheapest way humanly possible so it can continue making them money for as long as possible, regardless of how many problems that causes for the workers around it.
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u/QueenRotidder Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22
I can back this up. Well, not machinery, but tech infrastructure. Program that was obsolete in 1993? Sure, why not. "We will build a special specific thin client that can run this dinosaur, that only 2 people in the 6000 person company know anything about, I foresee zero issues with this game plan."
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u/SteelAlchemistScylla Nov 30 '22
If they give us an inch that is a battle in the class war they lose. Every conflict we are facing today is working class vs upper class.
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u/JunketGuy Nov 30 '22
That's already the minimum in my 3rd world country
America needs more days than that
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u/HollyAtwood Nov 30 '22
It’s the minimum in virtually every country besides America. Only the US and six tiny island nations don’t have mandates for any form of annual paid leave.
The UK which is the most comparable western nation still offers a months paid leave. In America for the most part your best bet is storing up sick days to take a vacation, and it’s usually looked down upon to be out for a week or more.
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u/amscraylane Nov 30 '22
My co-worker has taught since the 1987. He has over 168 sick days saved. Once he retires, he loses all of that which is punishment for never calling in sick IMO.
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u/ObjectPretty Nov 30 '22
He should probably get really sick 168 days before retiring.
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Nov 30 '22 edited Dec 28 '22
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u/ughhhtimeyeah Nov 30 '22
And they don't get maternity leave either
I have no idea how the fuck it all works...guess they have enough cogs to burn through
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u/Jonnie_Rocket Nov 30 '22
If you could get sick on your days off that would be great
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u/premature_eulogy Nov 30 '22
In Finland, if you get sick during your vacation period, you're supposed to notify your employer so that it's counted as sick leave and does not use up your earned vacation time.
Not everyone bothers (especially if it's something minor), of course, but the general idea that vacation is for enjoyment and relaxation and should not be able to be completely ruined by illness is fantastic.
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u/imtooldforthishison
Nov 30 '22
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7?!! Just 7?!! That job is incredibly hard, it takes a serious toll on your body and is extremely dangerous. SEVEN DAYS SICK LEAVE IS ALL THEY ARE ASKING FOR?!! And they won't give ot to them?!!!
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u/kindredfold Nov 30 '22
The rail unions went as low as 4 and the companies wouldn’t even give them one. 7 is more than they were willing to settle for before this.
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u/BBakerStreet Nov 30 '22
I heard an interview today where they said if they would give us 4 days they’d ratify immediately.
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Nov 30 '22
Why would they? They already know the entire federal government is backing the rail bosses.
The union has absolutely no leverage.
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u/LostEnglishStudent Nov 30 '22
it can just like, not comply with the government's orders lol.
That's pretty strong leverage.
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u/djazzie Nov 30 '22
That’s just sad that the rail companies are that stingy.
Hell, we should require all companies to provide a minimum number of paid sick days. Period.
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u/Able_Carry9153 Nov 30 '22
From what I've heard, they aren't even asking for as many as 7, that's Bernie's stipulation. I think what I read earlier said the Union was fighting for 4
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u/tw33k_ Nov 30 '22
They're not even asking for paid sick days, they're asking for UNPAID sick days
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u/Whydoesthisexist15 Nov 30 '22
Yeah they were literally just asking to be able to call out sick without getting fired
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u/Staubsau_Ger Nov 30 '22
The jobs are considered so vital to the US infrastructure that Congress has the ability to force them back to work, yet they're barely treated as humans.
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u/squishpitcher Nov 30 '22
Yes. Bernie is insisting on a full 7 days PAID sick leave, which is so incredibly reasonable, and depressingly both far more than the rail workers were willing to settle for and way more than the rail companies were willing to concede. Disgusting and shameful state of affairs.
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u/LoserScientist Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22
Jeezus, even my poor ass country (in Baltics) can afford to have paid sick leave as long as you have doctors note. First 5 days are paid by employer, afterwards social services money takes over, so there is no loss for the employer. My mom has neurodegenerative disease and was able to get 1.5 years of paid sick leave during disease progression.
IMHO there should never be a limit on sick leave. People dont just have cold, they have chronic diseases too. Cancer, major surgeries and whatnot. 7 days sick leave, thats ridiculous. This is what social taxes are for, in my country its about 9% of your paycheck, but gives you sick leave, old age pension and invalidity pension.
Edit: I forgot that social tax contributes to unemployment as well. As long as you were employed for uninterrupted 12 months, you get unemployment benefits no questions asked.
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u/Totally_NotACow Nov 30 '22
Honestly, the more I hear about Labor practices in the U.S. makes it feel like they're almost a third world country with how horribly some workers are treated.
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u/mcketten Nov 30 '22
We Americans were basically brainwashed into this attitude of if you're not working your ass off, you have no value.
With that mindset, the corporations were able to treat their employees as if they were worthless.
It's become such an integral part of American culture that to even speak up about it gets you labeled as unpatriotic or lazy or a communist, just looking for a handout.
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u/FreddyTwasFingered Nov 30 '22
Right! I get 5 weeks of sick time.
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u/imtooldforthishison Nov 30 '22
Between vacation, flex, sick and volunteer time, I get 5-6 weeks. And I sit in a desk and type.
7 days is unacceptable.
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u/FreddyTwasFingered Nov 30 '22
If I add in vacation, personal days, and holidays, i have another 7 weeks off.
7 days is absurd for that kind of work.
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u/chadthundertalk Nov 30 '22
Honestly, a distressing number of manual labour jobs have absolutely shitty time off. Case in point: I work in a furniture warehouse, and not only do I not get sick leave, we're understaffed to the point where our warehouse schedule runs on the assumption that I (like, specifically me, not just any warehouse worker) literally never get sick, injured, or need a personal day.
I took one day off last year, for my little brother's birthday, and they acted like it was some huge favour they were doing me.
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u/DistantKarma Nov 30 '22
I knew a guy who worked at chemical plant here, had a college degree and white collar job and still only got 5 days vacation, and ZERO "unscheduled leave" which was leave that was requested with less than 48 hours notice. I only found out about when he going in to work looking like he was half dead and he explained to me why.
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u/eclecticpsychonaut Nov 30 '22
Sounds about right. That’s a big reason why a lot of people on those sorts of jobs get FMLA.
I really wouldn’t bother, if I could take time off here and there as needed without getting fired for it. So you have to cover your ass.
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u/1benevolent Nov 30 '22
I remember being in the same boat for jbs and I straight up told them I'm not asking you for Christmas I'm telling I'm not working and you can have a replacement for me or wait all day for me to show up see which happens first. They had no one to replace me at the time so they couldn't fire me.
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u/MissWiggly2 Nov 30 '22
I work for a major shipping company loading trucks, often working 12 hours or close to it. No sick leave, just up to 2 weeks of PTO earned an hour at a time (one hour PTO for every 40 hours worked).
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u/WeekendSignificant48 Nov 30 '22
I've met so many Americans in the same boat as you. I hope the rail workers get what they want and it sets a standard for other industries to follow. Between. Sick/holiday pay I get about 8 weeks off a year and it doesn't feel like enough.
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u/TheGisbon Nov 30 '22
Well it would require them to have enough staff to allow that amount of sick leave and have coverage to keep the essential services running. That cost..... Wait for it..... Money. Industry all over the country is only seeing record profits not super record profits and my word.... What can we do but make sure we continue to make money for the bosses....... 🤷🤷🤷🤷
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u/finglonger1077 Nov 30 '22
Welcome to non-unionized manual labor in rural America my man. I worked in a factory that made parts for signals and maintenance, worked over 300 hours of overtime one year and took home $24k, think I had 5 days year one and 10 days year two. The place was hiring welders for $12/hr. And this was like 2013ish.
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u/ContemplatingPrison Nov 30 '22
I get unlimited paid sick time. It's crazy that any company or industry would want sick people working. Especially dangerous industries.
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u/Destin2930 Nov 30 '22
That’s pretty much how nursing is. We get sick days, but we’re strongly discouraged from using them due to staffing levels always being low. We’re at a point now where I have coworkers who won’t even bother testing themselves for covid.
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u/nunziavaer543210 Nov 30 '22
thats is why they are leaving hospitals, and either quitting nursing altogether or becoming a travelling nurse.
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u/Minorous Nov 30 '22
Yeah, we don't really have a limit on sick days. You sick you sick, stay in bed and rest up and that's that. Some industries are really messed up if they can't let their employees get well when they're unwell.
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u/RejZoR Nov 30 '22
We get unlimited paid sick time days for any job. They do have special inspection process every full month of sick leave to verify if you are still elegible (if you've had any surgeries or you're in process of any kind of extended healing/recovery verified by doctor). You get full pay for some time and then it goes to 80% of your full pay if it's extended period. Being sick doesn't mean your life gets fucked financially. Imagine that.
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u/honorbound93 Nov 30 '22 •
They were asking for 13 days and dropped it to 4. They even dropped the paid part. Warren Buffet and the rest of these oligarchs can shove it. Let them strike, it will suck for the rest of it but they will lose an enormous amount of money. This isn't even close to right, Biden has the Senate they could easily just pass giving them 20 days paid sick leave or w/E number they want. It would cost the railway pennies, the point is not to budge an inch or else you actually prove you have leverage and the system isn't for the ppl. That's what they are trying to prove here.
They are pushing us closer and closer to a general strike.
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u/w04a Nov 30 '22
I dont understand how 7 paid sick days is more money than paying to bust all these unions and lobbying congress? Like how much they losing trying to make sure they don't have to better workers livelihood?
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u/Consistent-Youth-407 Nov 30 '22
It’s about the message, don’t want people thinking they have any leverage
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u/compsciasaur Nov 30 '22
That's the only way I can conceive of a millionaire or billionaire not agreeing to 7 days paid sick leave. Because they're worried about something else.
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u/Obant Nov 30 '22
Doing some basic math on basic Google results, looks like it cost the company 7.5 mil a year across 5,000 Rail worker union employees.
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u/ThellraAK Nov 30 '22
Let them strike, it will suck for the rest of it but they will lose an enormous amount of money.
They'll just call it a shortage and have surge pricing and make more money at the end of the year.
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u/RedmannBarry Nov 30 '22
That’s a whole week of no working!! S/ seriously though, this shit is just so pathetic. How can our govt be so fucking dense?
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u/MissWiggly2 Nov 30 '22
I load trucks for a major shipping company, often working around 12 hours a day. We don't get any paid sick leave, just up to two weeks of PTO that has to be used for vacation, sick, and anything else if you want to actually still get paid. I say "up to" two weeks of PTO because we only earn it an hour at a time, and it's only an hour of PTO for every 40 hours we work. It's absurd.
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u/imtooldforthishison Nov 30 '22
Dude.... the fact that I work in the comfort of my own home on a company supplied computer set up, wearing my jammies after my 30 second commute from my bed to my office, while you're out there getting up and driving and doing all that... Its not ok. I don't even make a lot of money, just a gog in the wheel...
The fact that office workers can band together and say "Yeah. No. We aren't coming back to the office." and completely change the landscape of the corporate world, and you can even get appropriate time off IS NOT FAIR and I am so sorry. I wish there was more that I could do, but I can promise to always support you guys. You keep us running.
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u/Nyctomancer Nov 30 '22
One of the union leaders is only asking for 4 days, and the rail companies and Congress have still said no.
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u/pale_blue_problem Nov 30 '22
All I wanted was 7 days sick leave, and they wouldn’t give it to me. “Institutionalized” by Suicidal Tendencies
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u/SnooAvocados763 Nov 30 '22
Last I heard they were only asking for sick days in general whether they were paid or not. I'm not certain on the validity of the paid vs unpaid but if it's that latter that makes this whole situation even worse.
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u/XanderTheMander Nov 30 '22
My friend works for the RR. He said if he doesn't get the deal he may strike, if that doesn't work he will find a new job.
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u/imtooldforthishison Nov 30 '22
He probably should.
The worst part of all of this... People will blame the workers rather than the suits, if it all goes to shit. But these worker deserve better.
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u/OutOfCharacterAnswer Nov 30 '22
Because I don't take sick days, I could literally make every week a three day weekend if I wanted next school year. I that's not including all the other breaks I get. I mean, teaching is tough, but these dudes also work their asses way more physically than I do.
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u/k9moonmoon Nov 30 '22
The last semester before she retired my mom, a school administrator, asked the principal if she preferred end work a few weeks early, take a 3 day weekend the rest of the year, or work a bunch of half days lol. (She went with the half days option)
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u/nonameneededplease
Nov 30 '22
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I can't believe this is what the hold up is. Not insane pay increases or the like. They are asking for paid sick days, something required by law in many industrialized countries and we can't grant them 7 paid sick days to avoid major issues. Truly baffling.
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u/HollyAtwood Nov 30 '22 •
In many industrialized countries? In every industrialized country besides America. Every. Single. One.
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u/ughhhtimeyeah Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22
And it's at least 2 weeks lol...fuck that 7 day shit.
And then there's holiday pay as well, nevermind sick days.
In the UK you get sick pay for up to 28 WEEKS
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Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22
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u/ughhhtimeyeah Nov 30 '22
Yeah but you can claim UC too, and that's the minimum
It's not enough but it's not terrible or inhumane
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u/buttever Nov 30 '22 edited Dec 01 '22
*Unpaid, apparently
Edit: this is wrong. Thanks to /u/Momik for correcting me!
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u/Zaungast Nov 30 '22
I expected the GOP to be dogshit but ngl Biden and the democrats are also the bad guys on this issue.
Forcing people to work instead of strike when they lack basic things like sick days is China-tier thinking.
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u/mrsbuttstuff Nov 30 '22
No. They’re asking for unpaid sick days. Bernie is just trying to do them a solid.
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u/The_Ombudsman Nov 30 '22
From what I've read, it's not about paid sick days - it's about being able to take sick days when they need them (i.e. "I'm sick, I need this sick day today") without getting penalized.
I get that trains run on tight schedules and having someone critical not at work can mess stuff up; but the train companies have posted a ton of profits, they can afford to hire some more people to be on-call should the need arise.
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u/smithe4595 Nov 30 '22
They can absolutely afford to hire more staff. They just don’t want to. They were profitable several years ago and have since laid off more than 1/3 of rail workers and pocketed the increased profits. The rail companies are all monopolies so they don’t have to worry about service disruptions interfering with profits. Although there are several different rail companies, each one services a different geographical area so each functions as a monopoly.
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u/DevLARP Nov 30 '22
The privatization of natural monopolies has to be one of neoliberalism’s most ridiculous lies.
“If we replace the democratically-managed monopoly with a private for-profit monopoly, efficiency and quality is guaranteed to improve” … 🤡
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u/whatever_person Nov 30 '22
Thx for the last sentence, otherwise it sounded weird.
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u/Radagar Nov 30 '22
It is basically the scenario we have for everything here when you did deep enough. Most things are owned by a small set of companies.
I used to work for a company that makes all sorts of consumer products. I took complaint calls for their laundry detergents and dish soaps. It was amusing to have people call and complain about X brand and how they were switching to Y. "Great, want a coupon?"
They were mainly competing with themselves.
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u/sweaty_ball_salsa Nov 30 '22
These rail companies have sliced their workforces in half over the last couple of decades in order to extract more profit and pump up their stock prices with buybacks.
The shortage of rail workers isn’t a bug for these billionaire ghouls— it’s a feature.
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u/hamsterballzz Nov 30 '22
That’s really what it all comes down to, for all of us. Investors make a considerable amount less and the working people make quite a bit more. Every ecosystem needs a balance and the predators are wiping everything out.
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u/Approximately_Pi Nov 30 '22
I thought I had seen a study that said that 14 days of paid sick leave would cost the railroad barons ~$700M. However, the barons also just reported record profits in the tens of billions with a B. So if they only get 7 days, that's ~$350M. That really doesn't sound like a significant dent in their billions (plural).
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u/Rxef3RxeX92QCNZ Nov 30 '22
It's interesting how the asshole rich people still even get the benefit of the doubt of "well maybe it really would be expensive for them to treat their workers like human beings"
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u/desilusionator Nov 30 '22
Why won't these workers think about the profits for the billionaires!? Selfish bastards.
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u/Waffle_Stomper88 Nov 30 '22
Anyone remember when Cruz read Green Eggs and Ham as a filibuster against Obamacare? You know the thing that helped give healthcare to millions?
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u/snorkeling_moose Nov 30 '22
I do. I also remember when Trump called his wife ugly and implied his dad helped kill Kennedy. I ALSO remember when Cruz simped for Trump like crazy in the years following that. What an amazing individual!
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u/HaloGuy381 Nov 30 '22
I remember when he ran off for Cancun, while my family was freezing, my sister in particular had disgusting brown sludge instead of clean water in her sink at university, and then slinked back for a photo op and acted like all was okay. What a brave pile of sentient diarrhea.
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u/NotYetiFamous Nov 30 '22
The photo op where he was loading water into what was likely his own car?
At least he had the notion to blame the trip on his teenage daughter instead of man up and admit he didn't want to be cold.
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u/lowbwon Nov 30 '22
I lived in Austin when that happened. What an unbelievable piece of shut that guy is.
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Nov 30 '22
I also remember when he flew to Cancun while we didn't have water, had to fill buckets from our apartment pool to flush our toilet, and pay $10 per case of bottled water to survive on in the meantime
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u/AMidwestMonster Nov 30 '22
That’s the conservative trait though. No back bone, weak, insecure, small, pathetic, boring, lame, dumb, etc…
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u/diefreetimedie Nov 30 '22
Back when we still had a speaking filibuster... You could almost say the good ol days on that note... Almost.
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u/Rusty-Pipe-Wrench Nov 30 '22
Yeah Ted is great at theater. He would have made a much better wrestler or stage lead than statesman(wannabe statesman?) but nope, he chose to be the greedy,dgaf asshole always seizing more and more power over other humans.
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u/atx2004 Nov 30 '22
How about 7 guaranteed sick days for all workers?
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u/TheNightBench Nov 30 '22
How about 21. And if you don't use them by the end of the year they become vacation days, aka preventative sick days. Until we remove a couple of heads, the corporate oligarchs are going to keep treating us like disposable bags of meat.
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u/Chenz Nov 30 '22
How about do like Scandinavian countries and don’t limit sick days? If you’re sick, you’re sick, and should not go to work.
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u/Hausschuh Nov 30 '22
Its not only in scandinavia, same in switzerland and pretty much every where else in Europe as well. Its crazy to me that the US doesnt have it.
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Nov 30 '22
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u/Vlyn Nov 30 '22
42 days paid for by your employer. After that you get sick pay from the government, 70% of your income before taxes with a maximum of 112.88€ per day.
So it is pretty much unlimited sick days and sick pay, including paying for the medical cost (which is what bankrupts Americans in the first place).
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u/Allomera Nov 30 '22
All this for 7 days of paid sick leave. Today I am absolutely eternally grateful for the collective labor agreements negotiated by unions in Western Europe. What a privilege.
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u/TheVagabondLost Nov 30 '22
The workers were asking for 4 UNPAID sick days. That’s the sticking point.
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u/Matisaro Nov 30 '22
Yep, good. It is not about money the time off restrictions are brutal and entirely caused by corporate greed.
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u/New-Acadia-6496 Nov 30 '22
I work for a company that gives me 14 sick days AND 18 vacation days, every year. If I don't use those days, they are added to my compensation for when I leave the job. Unionize. You deserve what other countries consider the bare minimum.
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u/EmpyrealWolf Nov 30 '22
Finally a democratic senator blocking their own party’s legislation that I can get behind. Bernie still fighting the good fights
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u/IAmNotABartender Nov 30 '22
Bernie is independent, though he caucuses with the Democrats, since they're the closer-to-reasonable party.
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u/Falcrist Nov 30 '22
IIRC, he's the longest serving independent congressperson in US history.
He has stood up to democratic party legislation in the past.
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u/froglicker44 Nov 30 '22
He’s not a Democrat, he just caucuses with them. Technically he’s an independent.
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u/NeckbeardMod Nov 30 '22
These people's jobs are so crucial that they got Republicans and Democrats to agree on legislation to keep them working.
That means they should get whatever it is they fucking wanted in the "negotiations."
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u/DevLARP Nov 30 '22
If the oligarch-owned-government makes it illegal for workers to collectively bargain, the workers should all immediately quit.
Let em find out what happens when they fuck around with the labour that maintains critical infrastructure.
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u/GobsmackedOnLife Nov 30 '22
There's seriously not one other senator that is for the workers? That’s so fucked.
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u/iamagainstit Nov 30 '22
Several Democratic senators have come out and support of Bernie’s plan. I Know My senator, John Hickenlooper has.
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u/NoComment002 Nov 30 '22
Bernie has supported the working class since his first day in office. He walks the walk.
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u/Minorous Nov 30 '22
They're all beholden to corporations. Our gov has been captured by special interests. Just look how every billionaire hates Bernie.
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u/LOR_Fei Nov 30 '22
The only bipartisan agreement is to keep corporate money in politics. Citizens United was a horrible mistake that turned our nation into “Of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations”.
The founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
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u/TedStryker118 Nov 30 '22
The US needs to stop acting like a desperate, Gilded Age, banana republic. The economy will not fall apart if people have sick leave! And maternity leave, for that matter! I eagerly await the new, pro-union economic reset. Goodbye, Reaganomics.
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u/nzstrawman Nov 30 '22
WTF? they don't get 7 days paid now?
Here it's 10 days paid minimum for all
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u/Joshs-68 Nov 30 '22
We don’t get any. Actually we are penalized through a points system for taking them.
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u/ScoobyGDSTi Nov 30 '22
Meanwhile 10 sick days is the legal minimum for all full time workers regardless of profession or industry in almost every other first world country.
I have 10 sick days, 20 annual leave days and long service leave.
You Americans have taken capitalism too far. It's almost indentured sevitued at this point.
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u/flatzfishinG90 Nov 30 '22
I'm fine with rails temporarily collapsing if it means these people hold the line and get some freaking sick time!
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u/SatansLoLHelper Nov 30 '22
Ok, is it 7 or 15?
Wait that doesn't matter.
It should be 45. 6 weeks is what my grandfather had with unions.
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u/smithe4595 Nov 30 '22
The unions were originally asking for 15 and have come all the way down to 4. And even then the companies are refusing to give any.
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u/SatansLoLHelper Nov 30 '22
That's just spiteful after the past couple years. This isn't a job you are sitting around on.
Also this is the 3rd largest union in the US that can't get sick time. That will hurt everyone.
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u/HuntingGreyFace Nov 30 '22
the difference between leftism and liberalism in being demonstrated in this with Bernie supporting unions and Biden supporting corporations continuing to profit off another persons labor.
Bernie wants the workers to get their sick leave.
Biden wants the economy to keep going.
conservatives meanwhile are infighting about how fascist they should be.
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u/DaveinOakland Nov 30 '22 •
Jesus all they want is 7 days?