r/DelphiMurders Nov 29 '22 Platinum 1 Helpful 1 Silver 4 Gold 1

Probable Cause Documents Released

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf
3.0k Upvotes

459

u/Alarmed-Coyote-56 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

“Investigators spoke with an unnamed female witness, who stated that she was traveling East on 300 North on February 13th, 2022* and observed a male subject walking West, on the North side of 300 North, away from the Monan High Bridge. Unnamed female witness advised that the male subject was wearing a blue colored jacket and bluejeans and was muddy and bloody. She further stated, that it appeared he had gotten into a fight. Investigators were able to determine from watching the video from the Hoosier Harvestore that unnamed female witness was traveling on CR 300 North at approximately 3:57pm.”

Chilling.

*EDIT: sorry guys, I corrected the witness date to February 13th, 2022 to match the court document. When I pasted the quote it had formatting issues so I had to retype, and I wrote 2017 by default. Wondering if this is a typo in the court document anyway, why does it even say 2022..? Shouldn’t it be 2017? So weird.

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u/Sandy2065 Nov 29 '22

Very chilling. Also its the first time I have heard a more concrete time of when BG/RA left the area. A time frame of when the crime was finished.

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u/scandalabra Nov 29 '22

If he wasn't seen after 2:13pm, and seen by this witness at almost 4 - he was committing the crime for an hour. I can't get over how brazen that is.

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u/Sandy2065 Nov 29 '22

same! In broad daylight!

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u/ceallachokelly11 Nov 30 '22

I’m thinking the gun wasn’t the murder weapon as it appears the bullet was ejected but not fired.. I think witnesses would have heard gunshots.

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u/Tzipity Nov 30 '22

Not only that but what time was it that Libby’s… was it dad or grandpa who arrived to pick them up. What time was it he supposedly arrived at the trails? Because it’s been ages since I read the details but it absolutely gave me chills when I read that part and saw the time. Must have been awfully close.

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u/DaBingeGirl Nov 30 '22

Her dad, he arrived at 3:15.

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u/PsychologicalIce106 Nov 30 '22

I said the same thing out loud and alone. That’s almost an hour and half. To me, this is the most horrific and illuminating aspects as to the actual crime in the affidavit along with the clothing location detail. The unspent bullet laying in between these girls is going to nail him to the wall.

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u/Ambitious-Health-758 Nov 30 '22

This is why I still think he had it planed out in advance and knew exactly where he would take his victim/victims. He had scoped it out and knew that he would have time to do whatever he wanted. What a psychotic asshole.

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u/Entertainer-Old Nov 29 '22

Same here. Those little details everyone's been speculating on being revealed in this is what struck me the most.

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u/Tmoore188 Nov 29 '22

For me it was the revelation that the “down the hill” video shows the guy walking right behind Abby.

I don’t know why but I always imagined a super shaky video that shows nothing in particular but maybe a couple frames of relevant content.

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u/urbanhag Nov 29 '22

I wonder when the unnamed female witness told law enforcement about the sighting of a muddy, bloody man walking along the road.

Back at the time right after the murders, or recently.

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u/OdetotheGrimm Nov 29 '22

This is a big question to me. When were these witnesses interviewed? Well after the murders were in the public eye? That distorts memory. Mud can easily become blood through that filter.

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u/goodness___gracious Nov 30 '22

At the time. She told them as soon as she heard about the murders, called to tell them what she had seen that day.

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u/atg284 Nov 29 '22

Holy cow so he was just walking along the road in broad daylight?! Insane. I was figuring that he walked the creek back to his house to the south. Just insane he was on the loose this long.

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u/Zapookie Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

I outlined this on the map for anyone interested. X is the area bodies were found, red dotted line is assumed path taken after murders based on the witness description, and circled red area is the approximate location of witness sighting.

https://ibb.co/86KYQCC

Edited to add: It was an approximate 18 minute walk from location of the bodies to where he allegedly parked his car.

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u/DaBingeGirl Nov 30 '22

Thanks! That's very helpful! I'm stunned he was so exposed after the murders.

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u/PaulTyl3r Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

Derrick German was walking the trail back to his car at 3:30-4:00. If he hadn’t taken a right initially and then walked the other trail back to the freedom bridge, He may have walked right past him. RA walked right past where he was parked also, right before he got back. Insane.

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u/ecrtso Nov 29 '22

Chilling

Yep. This was honestly one of the biggest reveals in the PCA for me.

We've often wondered how BG got out. Now we know. (Unless there was more than one person who got into a fight & was bloody & muddy walking a rural road just after the murders occurred that February afternoon).

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u/Astra_Star_7860 Nov 29 '22

It terrifies me about the length of time he spent with the girls. Was hoping it was over and done with quickly but 1 hour and 45 mins with them before he was seen? Those poor girls.

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u/ForgetfulLucy28 Nov 30 '22

Honestly I just hope he killed them before he did anything else

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u/TomatoesAreToxic Nov 29 '22

Would this indicate that he likely left through the cemetery and walked back to his car that way?

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u/atg284 Nov 29 '22

I originally thought the murderers car was parked at the cemetery! Mind boggling that he was walking open roads instead.

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u/doberman8u Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

I'm curious why he didn't park at the cemetery, too muddy? Just mindblowing this dude did this and walked down the damn road. It makes absolutely no sense that he did this and thought he would get away with it in broad daylight.

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u/ArmadilloKindly1050 Nov 29 '22

... and he did for five years.

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u/doberman8u Nov 30 '22

Right and with the worst planning possible. I mean seriously what was the plan? No matter the method of murder, you then just walk down the road like NOONE could possibly come looking for their kids?

It's just beyond sloppy, it really is like the dude wanted to get caught.

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u/Spare-Estate1477 Nov 29 '22

My god. They could’ve shown her a pic of RA to identify. Who knows maybe they did and she said not him or something and that threw them off?

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DaBingeGirl Nov 30 '22

Major cognitive dissonance. He doesn't strike me as the type who'd wash his own clothes, so assuming he did, you'd think that alone would've been a memorable WTF moment after the photo was released.

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u/Djedunchained Nov 29 '22 Silver Helpful Take My Energy To The Stars

Damn! Sometimes it’s the guy you least expect, and sometimes it’s the guy who was confirmed to be at the bridge at the time of the murders who also matched the description and outfit.

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u/AnybodyOk6074 Nov 30 '22

And RA didn’t know they had video evidence of him that day right? So the clothing description was spot on and they never thought to interview him again? Ugh.

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u/megtuuu Nov 30 '22

If the admission to the mental health facility is true, I bet it happened when he found out they had video. He lost his shit or thought I can go into the hospital & use insanity for a defense. He had to think oh shit I told them I was there and what I was wearing. He was prob expecting for them to show up any day and arrest! Good thing for him he didn’t commit this crime in a town with experienced law enforcement!

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u/Jolly_Beautiful3487 Nov 30 '22

If it is true it was definitely because of the video and recording of him that the girls took..he was freaking out & wanted to get out of sight & out of mind so that he wasn’t identified..

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u/ZiggysSack Nov 29 '22

The only male confirmed to be on the trails at that time. The ONLY guy they knew was there.

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u/mildlyadorable Nov 30 '22

And he actually said he was ON the bridge and described what he was wearing that day that matched BG.

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u/pleasekillmerightnow Nov 30 '22

And he admitted himself being there at that day at that time

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u/TypicalLeo31 Nov 30 '22

And yet, no red flags for 5 years. How often does this happen where the case is never solved? How many time has it happened? It can not happen again, say in, Idaho!

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u/SeasonPositive6771 Nov 30 '22

Honestly these most recent developments make me feel potentially a little bit insane.

What were they waiting for? What finally tipped them over the edge to arrest him? He was glaringly obvious from the jump.

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u/Djedunchained Nov 30 '22

It’s as if they interviewed him in an attempt to find a witness, not a suspect and they cleared him when he said he didn’t see any other men out there. They sent him home like, “shit! He was there but didn’t see anything! This guys a ghost! The witnesses only saw Richard, and Richard only saw the girls and NO ONE SAW THE KILLER!”

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u/Concerned_Badger Nov 30 '22

…and what a coincidence that Richard was wearing the exact same clothing as the guy Libby captured on video! What a bunch of fucking idiots!

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u/VanillaGorilla- Nov 30 '22

Guess he tried to take the route of "Act casual and hope they look elsewhere" and it worked, for a bit.

A bit too long, but it worked.

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u/Human-Ad504 Nov 30 '22

Wtf happened between 2017 and 2022? Was there any DNA testing done or is it in the works? Crazy he never got rid of the gun. Hope they get more evidence soon but the bullet is solid evidence he's a dumbass for keeping the gun.

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u/FlatEggs Nov 30 '22

I love this comment. Normally I don’t like to mix humor with true crime because it tends to devolve into poor taste but this is funny and respectful. I actually chuckled out loud.

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u/D1G1TCRT Nov 29 '22

How was this guy not their primary suspect at the beginning? He was on the trail, wearing similar clothes, parked by the old CPS building, he was alone. Why in the hell did they not search this guy's house in 2017?

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u/Entertainer-Old Nov 29 '22

I'm also confused, because the investigators themselves were asking about a car parked there before we all knew of RA. Why were they asking the public for info when he phoned in the tip himself???

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u/karmagod13000 Nov 30 '22

honestly it sounds like they were so overwhelmed that they missed all the obvious parts right in front of them

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u/HospitalSheriff Nov 29 '22

Didn’t he go and tell a Conservation Officer he was there? These vary by state but they are basically the game wardens. They are sworn law enforcement officers but clearly not heading up the investigation. You have to wonder if that was deliberate on his part.

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u/Belleintheheart13 Nov 29 '22

That's why they wanted this sealed because it shows their incompetence in this case. My guess is someone from some other agency looked at the murder book, and questioned the initial statement from this guy.

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u/Girlsquiggle Nov 29 '22

Only the prosecutor did. The police superintendent said it didn’t need to be sealed

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u/D1G1TCRT Nov 29 '22

Literally anyone who participates in this subreddit would have picked this guy as their primary suspect within 5 minutes of looking at the people confirmed on the trail that day. The family should be infuriated.

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u/kvol69 Nov 29 '22

I'm also sure they thought who was snapchatting the girls that day and the killer were one in the same. And it turns out, it was some other piece of shit that was probably unrelated.

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u/EyezWyde Nov 29 '22

I am right there with you. I don't know how to feel right now and I'm relatively new to the case. I don't want to shame LE but....I just......he was there, his clothes were on par....the bridge might have had a few people on it but it's not Disneyworld where there's literally thousands of people to search through. HE HAD THE CLOTHES. Libby likely got the video of him and the gun was in his pocket as many Redditors claimed they thought. I couldn't see anything myself but this just feels....it feels shitty that it took so long in my opinion.

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u/Jade7345 Nov 29 '22

I agree. As I read the probable cause affidavit I kept getting angrier. They had all the same information in October that they had back when the murders happened in 2017… they just didn’t look closely enough. I can’t believe it… how many investigators missed this?!

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u/EyezWyde Nov 29 '22 Take My Energy

I just read the affidavit again and the POS even admitted where he parked. What pisses me off the most is other than admititng to the actual murder he told the truth! I was there, yep I was wearing those clothes, yep I parked where a weird car was parked, oh and was covering my face.....and never lose my gun! Love my gun. Even though I was there I wasn't there-there.

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u/Up-to-11 Nov 29 '22

I get the impression RA didn’t know at that time that the girls managed to capture footage of him and him coming forward was an attempt at getting himself ruled out of the investigation. Police should have done better as perpetrators have attempted this tactic in the past.

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u/Tzipity Nov 30 '22

It really is jaw dropping. I’ve been on and off this thread all evening and it just continues to boggle my mind. I don’t even have words anymore for how insane it is that if the conservation officer had pushed to share that info more or had RA spoken to a different LE or if LE had just been flipping competent they could’ve had the killer (and probably much more evidence against him, had they found the clothes and taken the car ALMOST SIX YEARS AGO.

So many folks have spoken in defense of LE and been all “it’s way more complicated than a TV show” and sure. It probably is. Yet come on, between the fact the girls got video and RA damn near confessed, at least to everything short of murder… there’s no way this should’ve taken so long.

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u/EyezWyde Nov 30 '22

I agree with you. I can’t believe it took so long. I feel like a couple teenagers interested in true crime could’ve solved this faster. Sure it’s complicated and of course we don’t know everything. We likely never will. But it seems like Delphi LE worked on this case 24/7 or so they like to give the impression. If that’s the truth I wouldn’t want their LE department protecting my city.

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u/64N_3v4D3r Nov 30 '22

Imagine if he had been smart enough to get rid of the gun over the past five years. He might have completely got away with it. Unbelievable.

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u/RocketSurgeon22 Nov 29 '22

FBI was laser focused on RL who owned the property near the crime scene, had criminal history, wore the same clothes and lied in his alibi

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u/wiscorrupted Nov 29 '22

Reading this it sounds like he was never interviewed by anyone other than the original conservation officer he talked to until oct 2022. They literally had all the same evidence to get a warrant to search his house within the first few weeks.

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u/Aggravating_Total697 Nov 29 '22

Right! A white male comes forward stating he was at the bridge that day between 1:30-3:30 pm and no one questioned him further?? So frustrating.

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u/unsilent_bob Nov 29 '22

I keep flashing to Paul Holes - or whoever the "outside investigator" was they hired - coming in and on his second day picking up the RA report and asking "So.....this guy who said he was at the bridge for 2 hours that day - how was he cleared again?"

<crickets>

Just really sad that a big focus of this story will be on a completely dropped ball for 5 years and the constant apologizing for it (not counting on a "lessons learned" review from these guys).

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u/Octavia9 Nov 30 '22

Let’s just hope he didn’t hurt anyone else during that 5 years.

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u/vegetaray246 Nov 30 '22

Same…

Horribly sad…They had RA telling them directly that he was on the bridge at the time of the murders, was wearing the same clothes as BG, corroborating the witnesses who saw him by saying he also saw them (the witnesses) and even identifying his own vehicle as the suspicious car that was reported…It’s absurd that it took Paul Holes or whoever to actually look at this five years after the fact and put them on the track of this guy…

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u/AmbitiousHunt Nov 30 '22

Not to mention the eyewitness driving by on C.R. 300 who saw a 'muddy, bloody' guy walking along from the direction of the murders toward the suspicious car. How much more did they need before filing for a search warrant on RA?? Or maybe they file for a search warrant and got denied by some dumbass judge?? That's the only thing I can think of to take the heat off LE in this case. What a lost opportunity to take this monster off the streets 5+ years ago! The families must be in utter disbelief and anger!

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u/xfileluv Nov 30 '22

I had long wanted Paul Holes to look over this case, for this very reason.

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u/breaddits Nov 30 '22

I genuinely never want to hear from these investigators again.

No more pats on the back, no more grandstanding over the long hours and the dedication. No more dramatically timed press conferences or empty “the buck stops with me” statements.

Fucking failures. If anyone else failed this bad at work they’d be fired. Fuck em.

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u/Flat_Reason8356 Nov 29 '22

Do you feel like this is similar to the Laci Peterson case. He placed himself at the scene, not knowing there was a video of him. RA doesn't come off as the sharpest tool in the shed.

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u/OdinYggdrasil9 Nov 30 '22

I am wondering If RA first interview was before the BG picture was first released I think Feb 15. The video wasn’t released until Later. If he was interviewed after the photo was released he is a complete idiot for sure.

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u/Break_Bot72 Nov 29 '22

Not just a white male (whom literally placed himself out there during the window of opportunity for the murders but also the time frame of witness accounts) but the guy literally told them the clothing he was wearing which also matched up with witness accounts they had - I'm honestly blown away.

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u/sceawian Nov 29 '22

ALSO - part of the cut out audio from the girls on the bridge is that they've spotted that BG had a gun.

An unspent bullet from Richard Allen's gun (that he says he's never given to anyone else, and that he also admits he had with him at the trails that day) is found between the girls' bodies. RA still owns said gun.

These policemen don't deserve their badges.

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u/Sufficient_Spray Nov 29 '22

I don’t see how this protected anyone either like they claimed. They wanted this buried because this looks absolutely terrible on the local and state officials. He literally gave them everything if he would’ve gotten rid of everything he had that day and not told anyone he probably would’ve gotten away with it. Unfuckingbelievable

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u/fortuitous_bounce Nov 29 '22

I think the cops effed the case up about as bad as any murder case in modern history, but I don't believe it was known until they spoke to him this October that he possessed a .40 caliber weapon.

But even if he said back in 2017, "Yep, I was on the trails, wearing jeans and a blue Carhartt, carrying my 40 caliber handgun and hunting knives" it wouldn't shock me if they went, "Oh, ok! Cool!"

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u/TinyGreenTurtles Nov 29 '22

But even if he said back in 2017, "Yep, I was on the trails, wearing jeans and a blue Carhartt, carrying my 40 caliber handgun and hunting knives" it wouldn't shock me if they went, "Oh, ok! Cool!"

Right? Like...they had so many things pointing right at him when they realized he was on the bridge - when he TOLD THEM he was on the bridge. Jfc they messed up.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[deleted]

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u/Tzipity Nov 29 '22

It’s wild to me that even the FBI was involved and this somehow got overlooked? I agree entirely on assuming everyone who said they were there that day should’ve been interviewed and searched, etc. I’d be curious to hear what was done towards the others who were there that day- just how much did LE question them and such?

Either way it’s a massive wtf moment but I guess I wonder just how badly they effed up.

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u/scratchnsniff90 Nov 30 '22

FBI, yes...but it's the Indianapolis office of the FBI. They're as grossly incompetent as the Barney Fifes on this case. See how they handled Larry Nassar as further evidence of this shitshow of incompetence. My god, are LE dullards.

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u/BulletProof604 Nov 29 '22

That's why DP got his azz torn to shreds and accused of being BG , he was 1 of the only white males that was publicly known to be on the trails that day,

Just imagine if the public knew Ricky came forward as a witness and put himself on the trails and BRIDGE that day!?!?

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u/EyezWyde Nov 29 '22

It looks that bad. I can't imagine there were hundreds of people on the bridge that day. Maybe a dozen. Maybe not even. How they missed this is inexcusable.

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u/New_Discussion_6692 Nov 29 '22

would have thought EVERYONE known to be on the trail that day would have had their lives turned upside down,

Yes this is incredibly shocking. I feel I have been interviewed more thoroughly as a witness to a fender-bender than they did this guy.

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u/vegetaray246 Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

Absolutely agree…

It just seems like common sense to look a little further into a guy who’s telling you he was on the bridge during the timeframe for the murders, was wearing the same clothing as BG, corroborated the witness accounts of seeing him by saying he also saw them, AND identified his car as being the suspicious vehicle that was reported…Not one LEO thought it might be a good idea to at least find out if this guy owned any guns or knives so they could test them against their super secret evidence, which now seems to be the bullet…

This is absurd…

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u/DVSdanny Nov 29 '22

They would’ve discovered that fact if they did their job in the beginning and looked into him.

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u/Cuppajoe96 Nov 29 '22

I keep reading more info and just feeling so awful for Libby and Abby.

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u/Tzipity Nov 29 '22

I know. That they got the video and we now know even whispered to one another about him having a gun, and an unspent round being found by their bodies… the girls themselves left them everything needed to catch the killer. And the gosh damn guy even admitted he was there.

It’s flipping horrible. I’ve always admired the strength of both families and how they kept doing interviews and such and continued to believe in LE. But imagine how they must feel too. It’s heartbreaking. Like an added level of heartbreak and anger and grief and pain to all that they’ve already been going through. It really upsets me to think about. It’s a second injustice done to the girls and their families.

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u/EyezWyde Nov 29 '22

Thank you! I'm sitting here speechless. He put himself there! He looks the part! I don't get it. I really, really, really, don't.

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u/Pinkgirl0825 Nov 29 '22

They had tunnel vision on Ron logan is what I think happened. I mean ron Logan was a red herring for the ages in my opinion. Still absolutely no excuse to not follow up though

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u/manderrx Nov 29 '22

All the secrecy makes so much more sense now.

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u/quant1000 Nov 29 '22

The handgun to me is the most frustrating miss. LE knew about the .40 caliber in 2017. RA purchased the Sig in 2001, which LE were able to verify in 2022. Why didn't they cross-check any witness who came forth and said they were actually there than day for possible .40 caliber handgun ownership? Smh.

LE also took his Ford Focus in 2022, presumably to check for any evidence. Good luck after almost 6 years? But if on the basis of having been at MHB, owning a .40 cal, being short af (lol), and owning a vehicle broadly like a PT or small SUV (to people that don't really fix on vehicles and the differences between them), LE could presumably have gotten a search warrant in 2017 for the Focus and have had a much better chance of finding trace evidence. Really smh.

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u/ChanDADDY85 Nov 29 '22

How the hell did it take this long to test the damn gun?? JUST WOW!! I am concerned this gigantic team of people and no one does this very basic thing?? People this dumb should not be allowed to dress them selves, drive cars, and surely shouldn't be police officers......

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u/ravensward792 Nov 29 '22

Unless I misread, his clothing isn't mentioned until his recent interview in Oct 2022.

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u/0118999-88I999725_3 Nov 29 '22

That’s how I read it as well. But wouldn’t you think that the interviewer should have asked RA what he was wearing that day? Or just, I don’t know, some follow-up questions??

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u/TinyGreenTurtles Nov 29 '22

It's like he told them he was there and they went finger guns "cool beans."

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u/LintyRoller Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

A white male comes forward stating he was at the bridge that day between 1:30-3:30 pm and no one questioned him further??

Yes, and it’s ridiculous. And not just a white male, which matches the witnesses’ statements and the cell phone capture, but one of only a small handful of people (and likely the only adult male) which they can place on the trails during the exact time that they know the offender was there.

LE should have dug into the stories, backgrounds, and lives of each of those people because that’s your immediate known suspect pool. Those people, as well as those close to the victims (because they have to look at them) should be heavily scrutinized at first, and if none of those investigations bear fruit, then they expand the search and investigation. It’s not just that he was in plain sight, he was right under their noses.

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u/LordlessWarrior Nov 29 '22

Good thing he did though or it would of never been solved. Hoping for one of the following….

1-DNA or blood present on coat 2-DNA or blood present on one of the confiscated knives 3-FIND THE CAR

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u/dancelast Nov 29 '22

I can't believe this rumor that they happened to review old tips was true. What were you doing for 5 years!!! You should have interviewed him in length that day. You could have gotten way more evidence at the time. This is huge failure of the police. I'd be livid if I were the family.

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u/pedalpower2020 Nov 29 '22

It’s a shameful oversight by law enforcement.

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u/KillerWriter1977 Nov 29 '22

This is why they want to hide the facts of the case from the public. He literally slipped through the cracks. The incompetence is stunning that it took so long to make an arrest.

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u/avenger5524 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22 Silver

Yeah, the cracks were so wide he didn't even have to slip through them, just jumped right down and waved goodbye on his way out. He practically waved his arms and said INVESTIGATE ME, and they were like "no, I don't think I will".

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u/Extermikate Nov 29 '22

That’s what I’ve been saying. He all but turned himself in.

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u/Dry-Worldliness-8191 Nov 29 '22

I have to agree.

RA: I was on the bridge LE: Was there anyone on the bridge? RA: Just me LE: Ok thanks. We'll talk later. Or not.

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u/CandyshipBattleland6 Nov 29 '22

The (likely) thousands/millions of dollars they've spent on the case the last 5 years and they could've had him immediately. I'm furious about the incompetence.

The girls' families deserved better than police who couldn't bother to interview someone who literally put himself at the scene, wearing the clothes pictured in the video, with 3 eye witnesses that described him as well.

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u/thisiswhatyouget Nov 29 '22

Yep.

They fucking blew it and they wanted to hide it as long as possible.

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u/fortuitous_bounce Nov 29 '22

He was literally the only adult male seen on the trails between 1:30 and 4pm that day, and the only one who admitted to being on the trails over that exact timeframe.

This is what so many of us knew was happening, CCSO and ISP completely butchering the case from day 1. It's been so obvious what they've been trying to hide for the last month - the truth about how they had their perp from Day 1 and never followed up.

It's actually even worse than I imagined. But people will still "back the blue" and say they did everything they could. lol

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u/Dickho Nov 29 '22

I mean, at the very least, ask to see the clothes he wearing on the bridge.

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u/macmommy4 Nov 29 '22

I wonder how many other crimes good old Ricky came forward to "help" an investigation

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u/no-name_silvertongue Nov 29 '22

it really is. they had eye witnesses as well as his car on surveillance. why didn’t they comb the town for those cars to rule people out? they literally interviewed this man.

i’m sure they tried their best, but i hope this case is studied for years to come about what not to do.

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u/Sharp_Ad_4817 Nov 29 '22

The muddy and bloody eye witness wtih the clothing and all other facts are INSANELY descriptive and how did it take 5 years to piece all of this together.

Small town police officers may have mistaken him coming forward as a sign he was just being a "good guy". You would assume Cops from larger cities and metro areas would've been more skeptical and jumped all over this.

What a terrible, terrible misstep by the police here.

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u/BirdInFlight301 Nov 29 '22

They had local, county, state and FBI working on the case in the beginning. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around all of them just skating right past this guy. What in the world were they thinking. "Hmm. We have this dude here, matches up on every single point. No use wasting our time checking into him."

This is just downright terrifying because they've really shown how easy it is to slip past investigators.

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u/CandyshipBattleland6 Nov 29 '22

And yet they release a sketch of a young, curly haired male? Where on earth did they get that from?

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u/unsilent_bob Nov 29 '22

"Oh that's Ricky - he's been at the CVS for years, always gets my wife's prescriptions right and even gave us free copies of our Myrtle Beach vacation pictures. He's so nice & helpful, he wouldn't hurt a fly!"

<eye roll>

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u/FrankyCentaur Nov 29 '22

He didn’t slip through the cracks, an officer held a door open for him and watched him walk out.

This is way more bungled than some small detail that slips through.

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u/Dense-Bullfrog-6363 Nov 29 '22

It’s such a small town that I wonder if the officer that originally interviewed RA knew him. Even if not personally, he may have interacted with him regularly enough at the pharmacy or the bar to write him off. Or perhaps he had stronger ties to RA that made him look the other way.

It’s hard to believe that an officer committed to the case looked at RA with an unbiased lens and didn’t see any red flags

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u/Alarmed-Coyote-56 Nov 29 '22

TLDR;

“An unspent .40 caliber round found between the bodies of Victim 1 and Victim 2, was forensically determined to have been cycled through Richard Allen’s Sig Sauer Model P226.”

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u/DopeandDiamonds Nov 29 '22

Thank you to u/Badasscrimechicken for a better link!

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u/tillman40 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Sound like that police didn’t want PC release is because they knew it would make them look like clowns

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u/fortuitous_bounce Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

unspent .40 caliber round from Allen's .40 caliber handgun - which was found during the search of his property in October - found directly in between the girls' bodies. Determined by forensics to have been cycled through his weapon but not fired. Wow.

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u/Iownamovingcastle Nov 29 '22

Why would it be cycled through but not fired? Does that mean he threatened them with a gun, then it...fell out? but he didn't shoot them?

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u/PotRoastEater Nov 29 '22

He went to chamber a round, probably for effect, but there was already one chambered, so it cycled in a new one and ejected the one in the barrel. This is very common at crime scenes.

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u/Iownamovingcastle Nov 29 '22

Ah that makes sense. You can probably tell I don't know much about guns. It is amazing that they can tell the exact gun it came from even from just that.

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u/HateDeathRampage69 Nov 30 '22

It's sort of controversial whether or not they can actually do that with accuracy

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u/EscapeDue3064 Nov 29 '22

My husband, who is a cop, literally just said the same thing when I asked him about the unspent round. He replied “that means he already had one in the chamber, and he racked his gun again, most likely to scare the girls before he killed them, and the round already in the chamber got ejected, which causes those markings on it. It’s actually very common at crime scenes, I’ve worked a lot of them where that happens”.

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u/Schrodingers_Nachos Nov 29 '22

I'm super curious about the precision of forensics testing for extraction marks. I'm sure you could determine a general make/model, but can it match the exact firearm?

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u/Oakwood2317 Nov 29 '22

Hell yes you can - it's how they caught Diane Downs. Anecdotally my brother and I own the same kind of handgun - the extraction marks on his are totally different than the ones mine leaves on cartridges, and these differences are consistent, and these are just the ones visible to my terrible eyes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Downs#Shootings

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u/Progress_Basic Nov 29 '22

Wondering why the yokel didn’t get rid of the weapon. I’m glad he’s so stupid.

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u/ImNotWitty2019 Nov 29 '22

He may not have realized the unspent bullet was expelled when he racked the gun.

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u/FlanIllustrious9067 Nov 29 '22

helpful to know. thanks for sharing!

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u/SBMoo24 Nov 29 '22

From Angela Ganote, Fox 59

"Here is my very quick read of the Probable Cause In the Richard Allen case it is 8 pages.

Page 2 details a gun, a .40 caliber unspent round, and 3 juveniles interviewed about a “kind of creepy” man.

Page 4 Richard Allen PC: Richard Allen’s interview with police 2017. Allen admitted he was on the trail between 1330–1530. He parked at the old Farm Bureau building and walked to the New Freedom Bridge. Said he didn’t see anyone. And was watching a “stock ticker” on his phone.

Lab determined the unspent round located within 2 feet of victim’s body had cycled through Allen’s gun.

Page 5: Richard Allen PC October 13, 2022 spoke to investigators again. He told investigators he owns firearms. Police interviewed his wife and she stated Richard still owns a blue Carhartt jacket. Police found boots, knives, firearms including a Sig Saurer .40 caliber pistol.

Page 6: Richard Allen had no explanation of why the bullet was found between Libby and Abby. Told police no one borrowed the gun. Police believe Richard Allen is the man seen on the video from the phone that forced the girls “down the hill.”"

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u/Jeannette311 Nov 29 '22

I am absolutely devastated. They could have had him right at the beginning. Jesus.

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u/in_shits_creek Nov 29 '22

The chances of that shell casing randomly appearing next to two dead bodies by a man who admitted to being on the trails the day of the murder is incredibly unlikely.

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u/EmiAndTheDesertCrow Nov 29 '22

That’s what I was thinking - if you were in fact innocent and you admit to being there on the day, at the right time, and your unspent bullet appears between the two girls after they’re heard on video saying “gun”….you’d have to be the unluckiest person in the world.

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u/Heykittykittyyeah Nov 29 '22

Not forgetting he also admitted to never before being on that property, so he could not say, yes I shoot deer with Ron Logan all the time.

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u/sashalovespizza Nov 29 '22

And you match the person in the video directing them down the hill…

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u/RobertHSmith2012 Nov 29 '22

Not to mention RA confirms he owns the gun, he’s never let anyone else use it or carry it, he bought the gun, he was on the trail that day, and the unspent round has extraction markings that match his gun.

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u/himbo-kakarot Nov 29 '22

Yep, reminds of the Kristin Smart case and how the prosecution was able to convict Paul Flores. You can come up with plenty of convoluted alternative theories, but any of those being true would mean that RA is the unluckiest bastard in the world.

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u/jamesshine Nov 29 '22

The clothing is important. He described himself as wearing clothes that match the description of the guy in the video. The witnesses described seeing the similar clothing. His wife said he still owned the blue jacket. I hope they found it.

At that point the unedited footage on the phone will be incredibly important.

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u/hypocrite_deer Nov 29 '22

I'm interested to read that one of the victims mentioned a gun in the extended version of the recording. At least that ties a bullet to the crime in some context.

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u/rxm1081 Nov 29 '22

So the girls encountered him at 2:13 and he was seen “muddy and bloody” returning to his car at 3:57. That’s a long time he was with them..

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u/binkerfluid Nov 29 '22

Does anyone remember when the dad called and was coming to pick them up?

If I remember right the original timeframe was really tight. So he was there while people were actively looking for the girls?

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Seems like if he never admitted he was there he might have never been caught

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u/Pretend-Customer7945 Nov 30 '22

True and if he had disposed of the gun and jacket

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u/JFeth Nov 30 '22

We all thought he was some kind of mastermind. It turns out he did everything but walk into the police station to confess. He admitted to being there. He admitted to wearing the same clothes as BG. He left a bullet at the scene that can be traced to his gun that he didn't get rid of.

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u/Cameupwiththisone Nov 29 '22 Silver Gold

Former prosecutor here. This is a pretty standard looking PCA. Please remember that the purpose of a PCA is to provide evidence to the court that there is probable cause to charge a defendant with a crime. It is not a document that presents the entire case. The discovery given to the defense will be much more involved and lengthy. The trial is where the full case will be presented by the prosecution.

Yes, tool marks on a firearm cartridge/casing are very strong evidence. There are a lot of murderers in prison because tool marks put them there. How a cartridge from Allen’s pistol, and only Allen’s pistol, ended up between the bodies of the victims on that property is a huge mountain to overcome for his defense team. The cartridge likely is not weathered and Allen admitted to: owning the gun since 2001, not lending it out, not knowing the property owner of the farm where the victims were found and never being on the property. He admits to being on the bridge on the day of the crime around when it happened and matches the physicals of the subject in the video. This is substantial probable cause for arrest and charging of murder and any defense lawyer would be working very hard to get that cartridge evidence suppressed or discredited. The likelihood of it appearing at that scene by the hand of anyone other than Allen simply falls short of reasonable doubt and Allen himself all but admitted such.

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u/EyezWyde Nov 29 '22

Thank you for explaining this. To me it sounds like they have/had sufficient evidence to arrest/charge Richard Allen. I don't understand why they didn't want it released and still do not understand why LE thinks more could be involved than just Richard Allen.

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u/ohkwarig Nov 29 '22

I think when they say "someone else might be involved", it's helpful to hear "someone else [his wife, his mom, somebody] might have covered for him after the fact"

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u/CategoryDeep Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

LE: “Who could have killed these girls? We must investigate and find them. ”

RA: “It’s me. Hi. I’m the killer it’s me.”

LE: “Nope. Still no idea. So mysterious. ”

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u/Current_Apartment988 Nov 30 '22

BEGGING the public to identify the person in the video, when the person LITERALLY identified himself.

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u/CategoryDeep Nov 30 '22

Yeah it’s really sad to think that him just straight up turning himself in isn’t even that big of an exaggeration.

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u/Substantial-Air-7913 Nov 29 '22

Does anyone else feel like this should have been solved years ago? IMO I sure think it should have. I can't imagine what the families are going through after finding out all this new information.

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u/fistfullofglitter Nov 29 '22

Everyone feels this should have been solved years ago.

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u/bigdumbidiot01 Nov 30 '22

he literally served himself up on a silver platter. they had all this evidence years ago. these cops have got to be the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet

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u/DaSpark Nov 29 '22

Just read the entire thing and I can not think of a single reason they should have kept this document hidden from the public. They should have redacted the names and released this as it was today immediately. Just my two cents.

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u/FunkHZR Nov 29 '22

I don’t understand much so forgive me but I still think it comes back to why they searched his property. They could have just seen the bullet in the search because it was circumstantial and the Hail Mary was running the bullet for a match and happened to hit.

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u/RobertHSmith2012 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

If you have a shell casing, you can run it through NIBIN and determine if it matches any a) shell casings collected from other crime scenes that have been entered into the NIBIN database b) guns used in crimes that have been collected, test fired, and entered into the NIBIN database.

They likely would have done this if they had a shell casing, but if the gun had never been used in a crime where shell casings were collected and entered into NIBIN, there would not be a match. Until, of course, you find a gun to test against it.

In this case, they didn’t have an empty shell casing, just an unspent (likely ejected) round with ejection markings. There’s no database for this, so it wouldn’t have been able to be checked against anything. Until, again, you find a gun, cycle a round through it, and examine the test round against what was found at the scene.

It’s like DNA - you could have it but unless the person is in the database, if there is a database, you don’t have anything to match it to.

ETA: corrected my prior statement. There is no way to check an unspent cycled round in NIBIN, so they needed to find the gun and compare a test-ejected round to the round they found.

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u/SoCalGal1984 Nov 30 '22

The most confounding thing to me in the PCA is the last sentence of the officer's RA narrative: "Potential follow up information: Who were the three girls walking in the area of Freedom Bridge?" THAT's what he got from the interview? My god, if he hasn't been fired yet he should be.

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u/DopeandDiamonds Nov 30 '22

Yeah that part confused me

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u/Commercial-Teach-233 Nov 30 '22

This reminds me of every Law and Order: SVU episode where the perpetrator is the first person they introduce.

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u/Living-Wind8836 Nov 29 '22 Silver

“We are requesting an extension of sealing of the document to protect the integrity of the case”

I saw nothing in the PC that would hurt the integrity of the case. They should have just stated “We are requesting an extension of sealing of the document because we made incompetent mistakes and we are embarrassed and ashamed of ourselves. We aren’t ready to be criticized by the public yet so we need some more time to prepare.”

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u/Dickho Nov 29 '22

“At least let us get through the holidays, being hailed as heroes, before the criticism starts.”

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u/Living-Wind8836 Nov 29 '22

“Our families deserve happy parents over Christmas, just wait until January”

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u/ecrtso Nov 29 '22

Interesting evidence that sticks out:

  • ejected bullet that matches his sig sauer

  • witness who saw man walking along road "bloody and muddy, like he'd been in a fight" at 3:57

  • witness who saw BG on bridge, on a platform

  • Allen's own statement that he sat on the bench after being on bridge (I often wondered if he encountered Libby & Abby before trapping them)

  • wife knowing he owned clothes like BG's

  • mention of his phone's MEID number

  • finally some info on the car at the old CPS ("Farm Bureau") building, including it being parked weird (to hide plates)

  • all the Hoosier Harvestore video

  • Allen claiming he was reading stock quotes on his phone while walking the trails

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u/comfycrewneck Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

So let me make sure I’ve got the chronology/logic of the PCA right:

An unspent round was found in 2017 at the crime scene.

LE conducted interviews of 3 eyewitnesses who separately described in detail seeing RA in the area.*

RA did a voluntary interview in 2017 where he said he was in the vicinity and described seeing those three witnesses (with far less detail) thereby confirming their timeline, description, etc.*

Sometime recently, LE went back through records and based off of RA’s 2017 interview, decided to reinterview him (assuming because he said he was in the area).

When he was reinterviewed in October 2022, RA admitted to owning clothes similar to those worn by an unidentified man that was mentioned by several eyewitnesses/ and documented in the video taken by Libby. During this interview, RA also admitted to owning guns.

RA’s admission about owning similar clothing and guns elicited LE to conduct a search warrant at his house where they subsequently found clothing similar to the description and his guns.

One of the guns found in the search warrant was examined and determined to match the markings on the unspent round.

*Edited to add info from u/relative_improvement

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u/relative_improvement Nov 29 '22

I would add to that:

Three other witnesses described him in detail; separately, he described seeing those three witnesses (with far less detail) thereby confirming their timeline, description, etc. (as they seem to have the clearest identification.)

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u/relative_improvement Nov 29 '22 Rocket Like

I don’t post here usually so please forgive me if this has been discussed, but who is the officer who took the original RA statement in 2017?? Who did he give it to?? Did someone just… set it aside?

I’m baffled after reading the PC. They had everything they needed in 2017…

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u/Officer-Bud-White Nov 29 '22

Based on the PCA it appears this case could have been "solved" to the lengths it is now in, what, 48 hours?

The prosecutor was kind enough to his colleagues not to provide the date of Allen's interview with the conservation officer, so we can't exactly answer that yet.

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u/Living-Wind8836 Nov 29 '22

Something that stuck out to me: the fact that he admitted to wearing a “black or blue cast hart jacket that day”

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u/mildlyadorable Nov 29 '22

He literally could have lied but didn’t and they still didn’t link him to this until 5 years later. I’m… dumbfounded.

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u/Living-Wind8836 Nov 29 '22

RIGHT! Why wouldn’t he lie about that? Why would he admit to that? Like cmon. He can’t be as smart as we’ve made him out to be.

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u/Sandy2065 Nov 29 '22

I think because he knew the young girls had seen him and he was trying to say yes he was there, without looking involved. It worked for 5 years.

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u/NashuaGarden Nov 29 '22

So disappointing how badly they failed to investigate this. I cannot even imagine how the families feel after finding out. And now the main detective on the case from the past five years was just voted into office as Sheriff. The town should request he step down.

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u/the_old_coday182 Nov 29 '22

Sounds like they never did get that big break we thought they needed, but instead someone simply said “So guys we have a list of people who were in the vicinity, and a bullet at the crime scene… did anyone actually ask those people if they had any firearms? So we could like crosscheck them against the bullet? No?”

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u/Longjumping-Piano-99 Nov 29 '22

So Allen basically said in 2017 he was there at the same time as the girls and even matched witnesses descriptions and it still took investigators 5 years to nail him. The fuck

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u/MiddleList1916 Nov 30 '22

So LE was being so secretive because they dropped the ball…

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u/ComesandGoes31 Nov 29 '22

Sorry if this has already been asked but they interviewed him twice in 2017, he admitted to being there at the time of the murders and wearing clothes similar to those seen on the picture/video that was taken by Libby, and his wife admitted he owned a coat like the one seen on the video, he admitted to owning guns, why did it take them 5 years to get a search warrant to match his gun to the casing? Did they have something more now that finally allowed them to?

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u/no-name_silvertongue Nov 29 '22

agree with you completely. however, i think the interviews where he and his wife mention the jacket and gun happened in october 2022, just weeks before his arrest.

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u/ravensward792 Nov 29 '22

Am I missing an interview from 2017 where he mentions clothing and gun? I only saw the interview from October of this year where those are mentioned. Can you direct me where to look?

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u/mildlyadorable Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

The witness statement about a “muddy and bloody” man coming from the direction of the trails says February 13, 2022. This should say 2017, right?

How did this get missed holy shit.

Edit: When I say missed, I’m stunned they didn’t link this to Allen faster when all this is pieced together. To me, there must have been some (implicit) bias involved in the folks looking at the case from the start not to immediately be suspicious of him.

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u/BulletProof604 Nov 29 '22

Richard Allen snitched on himself back in 2017 this is insane!!!

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u/Easy-Measurement6759 Nov 29 '22

I believe this PCA definitely provides probable cause. An interesting part to me was that the witnesses described him wearing different clothing, that just goes to show that eyewitness testimony is not always reliable for details. Or even if some of the details are off, that does not mean that somebody should be written off all together. Like if a victim’s story doesn’t completely match with the police have found, that does not mean that they are lying.

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u/xXxHondoxXx Nov 29 '22

Also, his car looks nothing like what the witnesses described...

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u/beena620 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

To believe this is a wrongful accusation or weak case is to believe:

-That Richard Allen was at the trails instead of anywhere else in the world at the time of a double child murder -That a second gun that similarly matches his in the “subjective” testing also belongs to someone who was in Indiana and, even more specifically, Delphi at the Monon High Bridge -That a person with a gun that matches testing to RA’s gun was at the actual scene of the girls’ bodies on Logan’s property -That Allen owns a jacket like BG -That a man in a bloody and muddy blue jacket was seen later, but it wasn’t BG or that RA isn’t BG or that there were multiple men with blue jackets out or that it isn’t at all related to the crime -That Allen was seen by several witnesses before 2:13 but not seen again after Libby’s video was time stamped even though he claims to have been at the trail until leaving at 3:30 -That the witness who saw a man in a muddy and bloody blue jacket before 4:00 was unrelated

Feel free to add to the list. Alone, some of these things are very possible. It’s actually incomprehensible that he got away with it beyond the first week.

The PCA isn’t the whole case. There is the issue of a second suspect and what they may have pertaining to that. We also don’t know if the clothing or knives taken from Allen’s home yielded or will yield DNA evidence from the girls. It is within the realm of possibility that police acted on an arrest as soon as the ballistics were confirmed but that DNA testing on his clothing and weapons takes longer and therefore would not be included in the PCA but will be presented at trial.

Edited to reflect a point another Reddit user made in the reply section.

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u/relative_improvement Nov 29 '22

This is why it’s important that the charge is felony murder, they can now prove that he had a gun, used it to make the girls move to a second location, and the unspent shell puts him at the location of the murder. And he said he never loaned anyone else the gun.

Even if he says he only got them to move and left the scene and has no idea how they died, he committed the kidnapping and is guilty of felony murder.

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u/EyezWyde Nov 29 '22

I'm no lawyer or legal expert but how do they NOT have a case against this shitbird?! He admitted to being there that day and time, he admitted to wearing clothing that matched with the Bridge Guy. A bullet from a gun he owns was found near the bodies so what would his defense be? Someone stole my gun and dressed up like me and killed those girls? I don't understand why this was hidden from the public at all. And I don't understand why in the actual hell the wife didn't say something. I'm not accusing her of knowing but she knows he had clothing that matched the bridge guy, knew he was there that day....I have no words and too many words at the same time. Thanks for posting this, OP!

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u/who_favor_fire Nov 29 '22

Probably because he told her he had voluntarily come forward and police never followed up beyond an initial interview. Also the suspect description was taller than RA and the hair on both sketches did not fit him.

Given that LE was not interested in him, why should she think different?

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u/Any_Coconut3294 Nov 29 '22

So they have confirmation that he was on the trail but also strong evidence he was in the vicinity of where the girls died. That bullet, if proven forensically without a doubt, puts him at the area where the bodies were found. So why did the prosecution believe there are more people involved? Were they physically there or did he share electronic audio/visuals of the crime scene online or conspired to do this random act of violence with others? There is so much more to this story.

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u/RachelGreen53 Nov 29 '22

I am confused. They had confirmed the week of the murders that this guy admitted to being on the trail. His clothing match the video. And they had a bullet from his gun at the scene from day one. And it took years to confirm him as a suspect? What am I missing? This isn't adding up. I just can't believe they would be this much incompetent. I am missing something? That seems pretty straightforward you had it took literal years.

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u/Mister_Silk Nov 29 '22

My mind goes back to Doug Carter all these years waxing poetic about the complexities and tentacles in this case and that someday when they tell us everything it will be "fascinating".

Sorry, there's nothing complex or fascinating about a man parking at the CPS building, stalking the girls to the end of the high bridge, forcing them into the woods, killing them, and then walking back to his car.

It's even less fascinating to learn LE knew RA was on the trails that day, matched the description given by witnesses, and left an unspent round at the scene. All known within the first week. Yet it still took them 5 1/2 years to figure it out?

The only fascination is how completely incompetent this entire investigation was from the beginning.

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u/FriedScrapple Nov 29 '22

They didn’t know the bullet was his at the time. Still, the fact that no one apparently followed up with him in five years is mind-boggling. And that he didn’t get rid of the gun in that time was a lucky break.

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u/clownsitelogin Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22 Silver Coin Gift

Main takeaways from the document:

Richard Allen is 100% definitely the killer.

Multiple witnesses, most of whom were secret and never known by the public until now, saw a man in a blue jacket and blue jeans, right around the time that RA claimed to have been at the park. These witnesses saw a man matching his description enter the park just before Abby and Libby arrived, on the high bridge itself moments before Abby and Libby arrived at the high bridge, and at 4pm, walking away from the crime scene covered in blood and mud.

Richard Allen claimed to have been in the park between around 1:30 and 3:30, in an outfit matching BG, but no man matching his description was seen by other witnesses at the park after the girls go missing. He, or a man in this outfit is seen before they go missing, but never after, until such times as he's walking down the road "muddy and bloody." This absence of any witnesses seeing him after this time, when he was supposedly there, is super damning. Where did you go during that time, Richard Allen?

This also means he had over an hour with the girls/girl's bodies, and that Cheyenne was walking on the bridge as he, only a few hundred feet away, silently engaged in whatever it was he was doing for that hour/1h 30 minute period.

Richard Allen is not a smart man. An unspent bullet found between the victims, analysed forensically, is matched to his gun, despite him claiming to have never been on the land or where the bodies were found. How did your bullet get there, then? He also had no answer to this, when questioned about this find, because (presumably) he was banged to rights

A car matching his car’s description was witnessed at the CPS building, parked in a suspicious manner (license plate hidden) and RA admitted to parking there - although he didn’t call it the CPS building at the time.

The female witness who saw BG standing on the bridge (assuming she is still alive) is a potential star witness, and she must be thanking her lucky stars he didn’t kill her that day. She is also, apart from BG/Richard Allen, the last person to see the girls alive.

Bitterbeatpoet’s “teenage witness” is real and that’s another notch in favour of his overall credibility, god rest his soul.

RA (or technically, a man exactly matching his description - but in actuality Richard Allen) appears to have been a complete moron who exited by or nearby the cemetery, and was spotted casually walking down the road, covered in blood, by a passing driver. Amazing! This is the villain that’s haunted our nightmares? This cocky, idiotic gimp? Unreal.

The police interviewed RA’s wife and she confirmed that he has a coat that matches the one worn by BG. As already seen in her earlier, now deleted FB video. And that is now in police’s ownership as evidence, presumably. She also admits he had multiple knives in the house.

Ultimately, RA conceded to being on the bridge and at the park at the exact time of the murders, yet it has somehow taken police five years for this man to come onto their radar. If this isn’t a massive and unforgivable act of negligence on their part, I don’t know what is.

It truly feels like this is, for the most part, solved. I honestly am amazed at all the additional witnesses they had, how casual the murderer was and how he committed the murders even after being so clearly seen by so many people.

By virtue of the fact that the witness who saw him on the bridge was not killed herself, nor were the three juveniles who also saw him, we can make a relatively strong assumption that RA was waiting at the bridge because he knew some specific victims were on their way there. Speculation on my part, sure, but explain to me if you disagree how or why he didn’t simply kill the lone female witness, or just pick off the three juveniles?

I’m open to suggestions, but it seems to me this may be why police think there is more to this than a simple opportunistic thrill kill. Perhaps someone told him they’d be there?

I cannot figure out how KK is not somehow involved in this, still, as the odds of this event happening to two young girls - I.e. being targeted at the same place on the same day by two completely unconnected predators - seems astronomically low.

What an unreal read and an amazingly damning probable cause. Richard Allen is toast.

Last question: What are the "unusual signatures" that Ives referred to? That mystery remains.

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u/Sandy2065 Nov 29 '22

I am wondering if now that his wife see's it was more than him just being at the trails at the same time and that a bullet from his actual gun was at the murder scene if she will start to put more things together and help investigators.

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u/batplex Nov 29 '22

Is anyone else blown away at how many details eyewitnesses can remember? I can't imagine recalling what someone I passed on the trail was wearing, or what color car I saw driving in what direction, even later on the same day. My memory is actually good but I guess not for visual details like this. God forbid I'm ever needed to recall this sort of thing.

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u/boxesofcats- Nov 29 '22

Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable

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u/PotRoastEater Nov 29 '22

There’s a guy who looks like BG, admits to being dressed like BG, and puts himself at the crime scene, but the police didn’t think they should even ask to see the clothes he was wearing? This is embarrassing.

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u/CannoliAccountant Nov 29 '22 Silver

This narrative and the timing outlined leads me to believe that he went there at that time specifically for the girls. If so, there’s likely a lot more evidence out there that details the previous communication and planning on meeting.

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u/Glass-Ad-2469 Nov 29 '22

So they had a an unspent bullet, a description, a video, and eye witness statements about a bloody and muddy guy walking away....and they focused on Kegan Kline, Ron Logan?

I get hindsight is 20/20 but dang-- if you had a .40 cal bullet would you not even think to review all of the legally purchased .40 cal guns in the region? Esp. if RA bought this in 2001?

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u/SnooPies6562 Nov 29 '22

To find an unspent bullet linked to his gun in leaves and branches and sticks between two murdered children is one strong finding. This isn’t a concrete parking lot, this is in the woods and at a crime scene. And witnesses placed him there before and after the murders-muddy and bloodied. His guilt is clear. The bullet-wow, what a find!

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u/chasingcomet2 Nov 29 '22

And RA said he didn’t know the property owner and had never been on that property.

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